Lisa & Tina: Growing up Hmong (Ep 26)

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Life Reviewed, a podcast by Hope House Colorado, where we invite you into conversation with teenage moms and the people who champion them. These stories of struggle, overcoming and perspective shifts will challenge you to review life as you've known it. One story, one person, one conversation at a time. Hello, everybody. Welcome to our podcast at Hope House Life Reviewed. I am Lisa Stephen, our founder and executive director. And I'm super excited to be here today with one of my most favorite people in the whole world, one of our alumni, Tina Vang, who way back in the day, when I was still, we were so small and we, you know, only had six or seven girls at a time, and we're just getting started with our GED program. I still got to work directly with the mamas, and so Tina is one of the mamas that I got to work directly with. That doesn't happen very much at anymore. As we've grown, we have 280 teenage moms now, and so I, I rarely get to know any of them as well as I got to know Tina. So it's super, super a blessing and privilege to be here with you today, Tina. So do you want to just introduce yourself and who you have with you? Our little guest. [00:01:20] Speaker B: Okay, so like Lisa said, I'm Tina and I have little Lennox with us. He's three months old. So, yeah, got got. It's been a while. It's been a very long time. I have, I'm a mother to four incredible kids. I have Scarlett, she's 17. Mercedes, who's 13. She's actually turning 14 next week. [00:01:43] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I know. [00:01:44] Speaker B: I have Eli, who is seven. And you know, you guys know my husband and I welcomed little Lennox three months ago. [00:01:54] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's absolutely crazy to me that Scarlett is 17. 17 and a half. When I met you, you were 16 younger than Scarlet is now. That makes me feel very old. [00:02:06] Speaker B: I feel really old. I was just telling her that I have so much anxiety because she's graduating. So I'm like, I don't know why I have anxiety. I'm just like, I can't believe that she's so grown up. [00:02:17] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I, that, that just. It's amazing to me and I will second it. Tina has literally the most amazing kids. They're athletic, they're great in school, they're so smart, they're funny, they're charming. Like, they love people. They're really, really good at, like, making connection with people. You have just done from being a single, like a single teenage mom at 16. To today. You have done such an incredible job. Like, your children are the product of the work that you have put into raising them to be the people they are. Even with some. You guys have had your obstacles even while you were parenting. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Oh, yes. [00:02:54] Speaker A: So tell us a little bit about, like, tell us a little bit about you, like before you even came to Hope House. And you, a teenage mom, talk a little bit about your heritage and who you are. [00:03:05] Speaker B: Oh, yes, of course. Okay. So I'm Asian American and Hmong, to be more specific. I was raised. Was raised culturally based. So everything was. My upbringing was very, very strict. [00:03:25] Speaker A: So I remember when you came to Hope House, I. This is. This is not a thing I'm very proud to admit. But I didn't. I had never met anybody who was Hmong. I didn't know what Hmong. I didn't know where people that were Hmong came from. And we had to. We learned like, we did. We did some research and we had a class, had to, like, teach our staff, like, what are Hmong traditions and Hmong culture and, you know, where do Hmong people come from? And so maybe you can share a little bit about that with our audience because they may not know. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Yeah, we had such. Honestly, for me, I feel like growing up at that time, it's normal, and I didn't know anything outside of that. So we had, like, old traditions and old outdated beliefs. So a lot of it was just, it's okay to get married at a young age. You know, it's. You're. Once you get married at a young age, it's your meant. You're considered an adult pretty much. You have to take care of your husband, you have to take care of his family. And actually, so we do this thing called a dowry. So diary is, you know, where the groom, you know, provides something of value in exchange for the bride. But once that exchange is made, the bride is technically pretty much the groom and his family's property. So they own her and she's, you know, pretty much required to do whatever they need. And so for me, I, again, did not know. That is not normal. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:06] Speaker B: So, yeah, so in my culture, we were, you know, again, very strict, but again, very outdated beliefs. [00:05:14] Speaker A: It was such a surprising thing. Like, we, you know, we worked with teenage moms. We've worked with a lot of moms who have dealt with generational poverty and really growing up in. In homes where there's, you know, domestic violence or addiction or a lot of homelessness. But Tina and her sister Ann, who also lived at Hope House. They lived here at Hope House. At the same time in the residential program were the first Hmong mamas that we had worked with. And I remember you talking with us about clan structure and how clan structure still existed for your family. And I was like, okay, that it's so. To me, it was foreign to think that there was such a. A different way of living within our own, you know, like you lived in Westminster, Colorado. You weren't living in Vietnam. [00:06:05] Speaker B: No, it wasn't. And. And that was like, the one thing, like, I forgot to mention. So my family, you know, migrated from Laos, in Thailand, Laos, to the United States during the Vietnam War. So knowing my mom, that's all that she knew. And again, the only tradition that she's known to, you know, be accustomed to. [00:06:27] Speaker A: Right. So it wasn't strange to her to. Because I believe, if I remember correctly, your stepdad paid a dowry for you when you were 14. [00:06:38] Speaker B: 14. So no, my. So he received a diary. So my daughter's dad, he. His family. So he. His family paid the dowy. That's right. And you know, then again, I would be like their property because they spent the money to invest in me. That's what to pretty much what the dowry was. Yeah. [00:07:04] Speaker A: And you were 14 when you went to live with. [00:07:07] Speaker B: I was 16 cuz I, you know, got pregnant at a young age. So we were forced to get married and follow, like, traditions and uphold, you. [00:07:18] Speaker A: Know, your typical clan structure. Yes. So you moved in with his family when you were 15 years old. And were you even able to go to school at that time or what did that look like living with his. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness, it was really hard. So I'm 15 and pregnant. So my duties. I'll walk you guys through, like, my everyday duties is like I wake up at five in the morning and I'd cook for his entire family. I was now now responsible to take care of his entire family. [00:07:50] Speaker A: All right, Lennox, you just chime in whenever you need to, buddy. [00:07:54] Speaker B: So you had to wake up at like 5 in the morning, I'd make dinner. And after I'm done making dinner, I don't even eat. Because this is gonna sound. I don't even think I ever, ever told you this, but, like, as a daughter in law, I'm not allowed to be the first one to eat. It has to be the father in law because, you know, father in law, men and sons are the one that carries the legacies, so they are the ones to eat first. So. [00:08:19] Speaker A: So here you are pregnant and you can't even eat. Yeah, and you're cooking? [00:08:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm cooking. So I would cook for the family and then, you know, once I'm done, done cooking, I actually didn't have time to eat. So I, what I would do is I cook, set the table and wake everybody up and let them know, like, hey, food is ready. And then I would go get ready and then, you know, wait for them. I really would wait on them to finish eating. And then when they were done eating, I had to clean up, wash the dishes and then I can go to school. [00:08:46] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. So you were still even in that situation, going to school. So you would come home from school and then what did that look like? [00:08:53] Speaker B: So once I came home, I think school really was at that time, being pregnant and having to deal with it was like my freedom, my out. So once I came home again, similar, similar thing. I would make dinner and come on, I'm 15, I don't know any recipes. I just would just make them on the fly. Like I just make things up in my head and surprisingly it turned out okay. [00:09:16] Speaker A: I remember you being a great cook, so I'd say there's a lot of creativity there. [00:09:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So I would make dinner, you know, set the table, get the family. And again, I was also responsible for his siblings now, so they were all younger than me. So I would be the one to make sure that they got their schoolwork done, that they didn't ditch school, that, you know, I pretty much was. Had to be an adult. [00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah. So you were making sure their homework got done and not even able to necessarily get to your homework. [00:09:44] Speaker B: Yes. And from what I remember, after, like cleaning and doing everything, I don't get to do my homework till like 11 at night. Wow. And so, yeah, it was a lot for a 15 year old to handle. [00:09:55] Speaker A: It was a lot for a 15 year old to handle. And then top that off with as, you know, stringent as that schedule was and as difficult as that was, it wasn't like there was appreciation for the work or the effort that you were putting in either. It was pretty much the opposite of that. And yes, your daughter's father was difficult, to say the least as a teenager, I would say pretty entitled. And didn't treat you well. [00:10:28] Speaker B: No, he was not the best. And again, my culture is that men gets to do whatever they want and it's hard because, like, they will again believe that they hold the legacy, carry the legacy. So if he treats you bad, that's too bad. That was, you know, that's how it is. Yeah, you have to put up with it. You can't leave again because I'm like, you know, owned by his family, so I can't leave. I can't do anything. And, you know, I would just have to put up with it. And it's not. Not just him, it would be his. His entire family. [00:11:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And this is, you know, for our listeners. I mean, are you. This was like 15 years ago, right? You're 30. [00:11:11] Speaker B: 32. [00:11:11] Speaker A: You're 32 now. So this was 17 years ago and you were going to public school. This was not like 1920s when nobody knew, you know, what was happening in our own back like this. Nobody at school knew that you were. [00:11:25] Speaker B: I was. I think I was so scared. I think a part of me knew that it didn't. Wasn't right because it. It didn't feel quite right to me. So I never talked about it to anybody. And I tried really hard not to make friends because I didn't want. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Wow. [00:11:38] Speaker B: I didn't want them to know what was going on in my life. So I really didn't have any friends outside. I actually didn't have any friends at all. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Wow. That is. I actually don't know that you've ever told me that. That. I mean, I knew how isolated you were, but that sounds even more isolating. Like here you are going to school, considering that you're only out for your day and yet you're going to school and you're still all by yourself. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. It was really tough, I have to say. Like, my teachers were amazing and obviously they didn't know what was going on, but I think that was like my out. Like, I just got to hang out with my teachers. [00:12:13] Speaker A: Was Anne, Was your sister Ann? She's a little bit older than you. Was she in the same school as you? Were you. Did you guys hang out at school? [00:12:19] Speaker B: I think at that time Ann dropped out. So she was, you know, she. It's kind of hard because, like, I, she. So I think she had Jacob. [00:12:31] Speaker A: She may have. She had. [00:12:32] Speaker B: She may have had Jacob. [00:12:33] Speaker A: She had Trinity. When we met you guys, when we met and you started coming to Hope House, I believe she did also have Jacob. I think she had both of them. [00:12:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. She had dropped out and she didn't live with my mom. And I think, you know, the less people who live with my mom, the better because we didn't get along. My. My stepdad didn't like us anyways because he. It's so weird because in our culture, it's like to believe that like when you marry another woman who has kids, like you're not supposed to love their children. [00:13:05] Speaker A: Really. That's a thing. You're just not supposed to love their children. [00:13:07] Speaker B: That is a huge thing. And like I hated it. I hated it so much. And you know, we weren't allowed to, we weren't allowed to be seen around him. Like I just remember that it was just so horrible. Like, it's just. [00:13:24] Speaker A: I remember you talking about like just spending a ton of time in the basement. [00:13:27] Speaker B: Oh my goodness. [00:13:28] Speaker A: Like just to stay away from. I'm like, oh my goodness. This poor girl is like this is before you were even, you know, married in quotation marks to your daughter's dad. That here you are, you know, at a very young age. Then at that point like late elementary school into early middle school, like essentially hiding in your own home to not be seen. [00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah. 100 like that is pretty much what I did have to do was from I think so I got pregnant at the end of eighth grade. [00:13:57] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. [00:13:59] Speaker B: And I see now like my again my daughter Mercedes, she's turning 14. She's close in age to where you were. Where I was. [00:14:07] Speaker A: And so it, that's an eye opening thing. I remember as a teenage mom when my son turned. I was 17 when I got pregnant. I remember when my son turned 17, just thinking, okay, first of all, my first thought was this boy could no more be a father at this age. Then I don't know. And then quickly thinking and I'm so glad about that. Like he's a typical 17 year old who has never had to carry the responsibilities that his dad carried because my husband and I got married and stayed married and very different situation than you and your daughter's dad. But just thinking how grateful I was that he got to have what I would call in quotes a normal, more normal than I had growing up experience. Share a little bit about that like being able to give your daughters and your sons something different. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Oh my goodness. I think that's why like I just love my, my kids so much. I know every parent says that and says other kids are just amazing. But I swear like I think I worked so hard, you know, with the tools that I received from Hope House to break generation curses of like, I'm not going to uphold those traditions. And you know, my, my daughter could, you know, go to school and not have to worry about taking care of other people or not, you know, just not feeling like she's someone's property. [00:15:31] Speaker A: So what does she love? What does Mercedes love to like, tell, talk about her personality, what she loves to do. [00:15:38] Speaker B: So Mercedes, she's. She's very close off. She's a little bit more on the. [00:15:43] Speaker A: Little shot, more quiet. [00:15:44] Speaker B: She's quiet and she likes to stand in the back and kind of observe everything. Scarlett on their hand, she's very, very outspoken. And I think that's what it is. Because I think growing up again, like in my culture, even now, I feel like I struggle with it a lot. And again, I'm very open with my children about my culture and my upbringing. So like with Scarlett, she's again, very outspoken with me. I wasn't allowed to be outspoken like that. I wasn't allowed to speak my mind. You know, it's not in my culture, women are not allowed to speak outside of their turn. So that was, I think that was probably the most amazing thing to see my daughter Scarlett grow into is like, like, with the littlest things. So, like school, like, I'm like, hey, do you remember I talked to you? You need to talk to your teacher. She's like, oh, I already talked to them. With me, which is for me is like, I have to build that courage. And when I build that courage to talk to them, I really, truly cry afterwards because it was just so nerve wracking to me. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Oh, it's so incredible to see how, well, just for Scarlet to be so empowered and able to be truly free to be herself and who you have built into her to be, it's like awesome to get to watch. Like, I remember even after, long after you graduated from high school or from, from high school, long after you graduated from Hope, getting to come and be a part of just a few of the things that your kids have done over the years and like, getting to be there when it was Scarlet that was like really into acting for a little bit there, and she was at a, there was like a dance competition at the mall. [00:17:23] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:17:24] Speaker A: And I got to come and see her dance competition. I'm like, oh, my gosh, she's amazing. This girl is so beautiful and poised and able to be in public and like, be herself. Be herself and be free. [00:17:34] Speaker B: And honestly, I don't think if it wasn't for me going to Hope House, I don't think I would have ever allowed her to do that because again, in our culture, it's like women are not allowed to do that. You're considered, you know, a bad word. And so it took a lot of convincing. I think at that time, when she randomly told me she wanted to be an actor, I'M like, oh, that's, you know, fantasy. Not. Not a real thing. But a part of me kept, you know, saying that, like, hey, that's what she wants to do. Allow her to express herself. And I kind of took that route a little at a time because, man, I was scared myself. I'm just like, okay. But then I see how much she loved it and how all the things that she learned from it and how much she grew, and, like, I'm just like, okay. I was just like, okay, this is. This is. This is her. Like, she likes doing this. And I. I was growing with her. [00:18:29] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Yes. Yeah, you were growing with her. And that is a fairly typical thing. Actually. A lot of your story is sort of atypical or different in just in terms of your culture being a teenage mom. But some things are the same. Like, teenage moms have faced many of the same things. Like, I'll always say, from Mary being a teenage mom and facing judgment as a teenage mom, even way back in the Bible to today, I mean, that's one thing that stayed the same no matter what. From my generation of being a teenage mom to your generation of being a teenage mom, to the girls we serve at Hope House today who are, you know, 16 years old like you were. All of them have experienced judgment and shame and feeling like, when I go out in public with a my baby on my hip, like, people are looking at me, even just. And that's like, the nice kind of judgment. Like, somebody kind of side eyeing me at the grocery store, like, are you that kid's mom? That's the nice in quotations, judgment. Like, you know, there are so many much harder stories of going to the doctor's office and the doctor treating you like really a bad word because you're a teenage mom, and they're. They don't trust in your innate capability to raise your own child. Like, they don't. Nobody believes that you're innately capable and a Hope House. Like, for us, the very first thing we believe is that you are innately capable of caring for your child, raising your child. Like, not only that, you're literally chosen to be your baby's mom. So even in the situation that you were in with Scarlett, and as difficult as it is even for our listeners to even imagine, frankly, the fact is, like, that baby girl was. She was chosen for you, and you were chosen for her even in that situation. And so now today, you are living that out. Like, you two are living out that blessing of being chosen to be mom and daughter and Here she is going to graduate. [00:20:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. Oh, my God. Yeah. I couldn't have asked for anything better. Like, yeah, it was really hard, you know, growing up with, you know, being that I'm Hmong and having to be a teen mom and dealing with everything that I dealt with. I honestly don't think I would change it for the world because I learned a lot, and my kids are amazing. [00:20:45] Speaker A: They are absolutely amazing. Does she have plans next year after graduating? So she's going to be a senior this year. And what is she. Do you know what she's thinking? [00:20:54] Speaker B: She really wants to go to CU Boulder, but scholarships there is hard to get for her right now. She has a really good grade, but not good enough for her to get a scholarship, and it's costly. So I was like, okay, maybe we could, you know, think about a different school. But she wants to get her bachelor's in business. She's super. She has a very entrepreneur. Entrepreneurial like, mindset. So she originally didn't want to go into business, but I told her. I was like. I was like, you know, you need a degree to kind of fall back on because she kind of just wanted to graduate and then start making her own business money. [00:21:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So I was like. I was like, you know, I'd like you to have something fall back on, you know? So she's. She's like, okay, let's do that. So she's super excited now because she just went on a tour to CU Boulder, and, oh, my God, she loved it. She fell in love almost as I. [00:21:44] Speaker A: Was like, okay, well, then we're just gonna start praying. God will make a way. God has made a way in your life and in her life for so many things. So if that is where she's meant to be, we're just gonna start praying that he makes a way for her to get to be a student at CU Boulder. Either way, she's gonna thrive wherever she goes because she's. She just. She's a learner. She loves to learn, and she's good at school. [00:22:07] Speaker B: She's amazing. Yeah, she's. She's definitely got. [00:22:11] Speaker A: I. [00:22:11] Speaker B: She's really. I think, honestly, she's my idol. Like, I feel like I look up to her more than anything because, like, man, I could. I always think about, like, I don't know, maybe it could be because I didn't have the resources at the time, you know, before I met Hope House. But, like, her determination to, like, finish high school and, you know, like, get her goals completed, like, she has a goal she has a goal board. [00:22:36] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I love it. [00:22:37] Speaker B: She's so, like, so different from myself when I was young. So I'm just like, so. That's amazing. Like, she'll check off her goals when she completes it. She's like, I do this, I do this, I did this. [00:22:46] Speaker A: You say that, but I remember you being pretty goal oriented yourself. You are no slouch. Like you, Tina is one of the most courageous women I know for sure. But also, you're incredibly smart and incredibly. It's like your brain can do puzzles in your sleep. You can put things together in ways that, like, your brain is just wired. [00:23:08] Speaker B: Not stop working, non stop working. [00:23:11] Speaker A: Well, maybe sometimes that drives you crazy because it's like, oh, yeah, your brain is running 100 of the time. But I remember you had a job in logistics at one point, like where you were figuring out what logistics says in the shipping world. So, like, what kinds of. How do we get everything packed into the truck the way that it most efficiently can be packed into the truck and then have all these routes that trucks go on? I don't even know. You were trying to explain it to me and I'm like, oh, my gosh. [00:23:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I do. I was working for like a truck trucking company. So I had to, like, figure things out on my own. So that's really what I had to do. [00:23:47] Speaker A: You've been figuring things out on your own for a really long time. And you, you always come to a solution. Like, you're so solution oriented. I remember. I'll tell this story and then we'll take a quick break. But I. So my story of getting to meet Tina was So back in 2008, Hope House came into existence. In 2003, we opened our doors in 2003, Tina and her sister Ann came to us when we had just started mentoring programs. So we had just branched out from being just a residential home where we could serve up to six mamas and their kiddos at a time. And we had just started branching out into serving more teen moms in the community in like 2006, 2007. [00:24:31] Speaker B: You have better memory than me. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. So here we were. We were. It was 2007. We're starting this mentoring program. We were getting to know more teen moms in the community. And I know you remember Lynn was our mentoring coordinator at the time. And Tina and Ann, one of you. [00:24:48] Speaker B: Had reached out to me. [00:24:50] Speaker A: It was. You had reached out to Lynn about getting into our mentoring program, which. Why, how did you even know about the mentoring program. [00:24:56] Speaker B: Okay, okay. So this is. Okay, so with, like, me having to live with the girls. Dad's their family. I ran away a lot because, you know, my mom was consistently rejecting me to live with her. I get in trouble, I ditch. And then the school actually sent me to truancy court. And then when I went to truancy court, I was mandated to, you know, finish family therapy. And the counselor there, she was amazing. And she originally didn't even know I had a kid. And then she came to the house to do, like, a home check thing. And she was like, you have a daughter? And I was like, yeah. She's like, there's this amazing program called Hope House. She was like, I have their card. I really think you should give them a call. So that's kind of how I started. [00:25:43] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I kind of forgotten about that piece. I remember, like, we'd started this mentoring program, and I know Lynn had talked to us about you and Ann, and we had never served sisters that both were teenage moms. And so I'm like, wow, this would be, you know, a privilege to get to be able to be a part of their lives. Well, it was also right when it was in early 2008. It was right when the recession happened, the great Recession, and, like, people's lives were falling apart financially. And a lot of our donors had stopped giving to Hope House because they couldn't. During that time, people had just were losing money. And so we were struggling with, how are we even going to stay open, frankly, because we were. We had just been losing donations. And here's Lynn with like, okay, we got to keep doing our mentoring program. And she had gotten a call from you and Ann one morning. Do you want to talk? How do you remember that? That day? [00:26:40] Speaker B: That was really, really hard. So my kids. I had just got done telling my kids this story a few months ago because they, you know, read your book and they know a little bit about it. But so what happened was so my dad, my stepdad, again, we weren't welcome to live with him. And my. One of my sisters originally said that we could live with them, but being that it was a one bedroom apartment and, you know, our family, we don't. Didn't know how to get along. So my sister kicked us out. And thankfully my daughter was with her dad at the time, and my sister, but my sister had her. My nephew, I think he was like three months, four months or so. At first, we're just like, oh, yeah, you know what? We have the freedom to do whatever we want, it's okay. But you know, the night got darker and later and got colder and I think this was actually towards the end of winter a little bit because I remember there was still snow on the ground. [00:27:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:43] Speaker B: So we actually ended up walking to a park and we slept in the. [00:27:49] Speaker A: Park. [00:27:51] Speaker B: My sister and I. [00:27:52] Speaker A: With Anne's baby. [00:27:53] Speaker B: Yeah, with, with her son. And it was really hard because she, we didn't have formula for him and you know, we were freezing cold. We were trying to stay out of sight because we didn't want to get in trouble, we don't want to get separated. And at that time we really just truly felt like we were all we had. So we stayed there until probably five in the morning and that was when. And my sister was telling me I think you should because I've talked to her about Lynn a lot so I really think you should call Lynn. I was like no, no, no, we could figure it out. I'm scared, like I'm so scared to call her. Like I don't know how she would react, you know. And she was like, I think we should just call her. So we walked to a payphone that's not non existence today. And, and I don't know if you guys remember but payphones like typically will take your money if it went to voicemail. So I remember telling myself like we only have 50 cents left. That is literally all we have. We were two teenagers, no job, no money, we have a three month old baby with us. So I was like, okay, after the third ring I'm going to hang up. So I called Lynn and I swear each ring felt so long and my heart sunk even more. It just felt like I was breaking even more. And luckily like on the third ring ring it like was about, I was about to hang up. Lynn picked up. Oh my God. I remember like I cried of relief. Like it was just, I was just so relieved that she picked up the phone. [00:29:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:29] Speaker B: And I'm just pretty much explained her my situation and then we made plans to meet afterwards and she picked us up and we came to Hope House which was okay. [00:29:39] Speaker A: So from my end of the. So first of all hearing that even still all these years later just breaks my heart like that you were in that situation because I just love you so much. You're like such a light in my life, Tina. But, but at the time I hadn't met you yet. You know, Lynn calls me after she talks to you and she's like okay, I'm picking up Ann and Tina. I'M bringing them to Hope House. And I'm like, wait, what? Like, we have a process. We have rules. We have also no money. Like, you can't just pick them up and bring them. And she's like, no, I'm bringing them. They. They slept in the park. I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, pick. Bring them. Like, bring them to the house. We'll figure it out. I just remember you guys getting here and both of you being so. Well, Ann was a little more talkative, but you were pretty quiet and reserved, and you both were just so tired. Like, you just looked. You looked like you hadn't slept in three months, not one night. And so I remember just, like, getting you guys fed in the kitchen, in the house and then putting you to bed, essentially, like, just like, getting you some sleep. And then we all sat around the table after you. We got you guys to bed, and we're like, what are we going to do? Like, we. We don't have the staffing to bring both moms into the residential program. We can't hire more staffing right now because we don't have any money. And just totally praying and taking it to God, like, what are we going to do? And it literally was one of the. And I may be getting some of the details all these years later wrong, but it was one. I remember it being one of the hardest decisions ever. Like, we can take one of them. Like, one of them can stay and one of them. We can't. We don't. Like, we don't have enough staffing to take them both. What are we going to do? And having to sit down with you guys and explain, like, were Anne had two babies, she had her older daughter and her son that she brought with her. And she was a little older than you. I think she was 18 maybe at the time. [00:31:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. I think that sounds about right. [00:31:38] Speaker A: So we were. We decided, well, if Anne can stay, Tina, can you manage? If we can get you back to your mom's house, can you manage for a little bit longer? Keep coming to our GED program so we can keep having you near us, and then as soon as we have the availability, we'll get you moved in. How do you remember that? [00:31:55] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. So when Lynn took us here, I remember this, like, overwhelming feeling of joy and peace. I can't even explain it. Like, it's just. I just felt so, so good to be here. And, like, I was reserved because, again, like, growing up in an Asian household, we were told, you know, it's unacceptable to get outside help. So I was very, very skeptic and I was like, are they really going to help? But I was just, I felt so loved immediately when I walked through the door. So yeah, that is essentially what happened. And you know, we got here and we slept and like Danielle was giving us her clothes and stuff and it. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Was just, oh, Danielle, one of our other mamas. We'll talk about her. [00:32:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, she was amazing too. And again, every, every mom here was amazing. All the staffs were amazing. And then that is, I remember, I don't remember if it was you or one of the staffs woke me up like, hey, you know, and you guys explained to me like the situation of what's going to happen. And I was a little bummed, you know, that I had to leave, but I, I understood, you know, and I was like, okay, I'm going to make this work, you know, like I'm going to suck it up and live with my mom and my stepdad. Cuz again, I wasn't welcome there and I wasn't allowed to live there. And I think because you guys actually talked to my mom and she didn't know what to say. So she was like, okay, so I lived there at my stepdad's and stayed in the basement the entire time. Tried to minimize my footprint there and just be non existent pretty much. And came to GED every day, I don't even remember, for like a month or two. [00:33:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And so meanwhile, what's happening at Hope House while you're, you know, she's coming back and forth to go to GED and we're getting to work with Anne and frankly I'm like, we're at a point in time where I'm just freaking out is probably not too strong of a word. We had to lay some people off because of where we were financially. Everybody on staff who stayed had to take a pay cut because that was the only way we were keeping the doors open. And we were just praying like, what? What do we do? And I remember being in church and the pastor giving the sermon I had. I still cannot even remember what the sermon was about, but I remember the one thing he said that stuck in my head was if. As if God was speaking to us, like, I'm not going to give you more right now. What are you going to do with what I've already given you? And I just was so struck by that, like, what are we going to do with what God's already given us? And coming back and talking to the staff and like, what, what has God already given us? And sue, at the time, our volunteer coordinator was like, well, our volunteer rate is up by like 34%. So here are all these people who are losing money. They're people are losing jobs. It's kind of a economic meltdown and people had time. So people were donating their time more than they were donating their dollars. And I just was like, well, what if we actually asked volunteers to be staff? And right away we were all kind of poo pooing it. Like, nobody's going to do that. Nobody's going to actually volunteer to work and be not paid. Like, like actually be staff, but be volunteers. So you have to come in for your shift, you have to come to meetings, you're literally going to be a staff member, but we're not going to pay you. We're like, well, we don't have anything to lose. So we put it out there. And sure enough, like, within a week we had two volunteers willing to do overnight shifts, willing to be here on the weekend, willing to not be paid and be like part time staff without pay. And that increased. We ended up, I think we had four or five at one point who were volunteer staff. And we were able to call Tina and say, we have enough, we have enough staff. You can come, you can move in. So what was it like when you moved into the house? [00:35:38] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. I was so excited when I received that call. Like, I, I barely had anything. I was already done packing. I was ready to come. I was so excited. Like, I just get to, you know, be myself, be in a safe place, be in a safe environment and being a very. Be in a positive environment. And I never got that growing up. So I was ecstatic. [00:36:03] Speaker A: You were so incredibly, like, focused on being the best mom you could be. Like, you. I mean, the way you talk about your kids, that is honestly you, Tina. Like, you are that person. You are that focused, determined, driven girl. And even at 16, 17 years old, you were also sassy. But you, you opened up like, it was literally like watching a plant get water. Like, you went from being reserved and like, kind of standing back to sharing your opinion. It was like, it was the first time you got to share your opinion and like, stomp your foot like a little kid sometimes, which you never had gotten to do. Like, can you imagine not ever having the privilege of just being a kid and getting to stomp your foot and say, I don't want to. Like, that's what kids are supposed to do. Yeah. Supposed to stomp their foot and so you got to do that a few times. It helped that you became very good friends with Danielle who you mentioned who Danielle had no problems stomping her foot. Still does. Not today. And you guys are still friends? [00:37:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:07] Speaker A: All these years. [00:37:07] Speaker B: She's amazing. We still talk from time to time and I actually plan to go visit her this summer, but things are quite not there yet. So we're, we're still making plans, but Danielle's okay. [00:37:19] Speaker A: Well, we're going to talk a little bit more about Danielle and your experience at Hope House and kind of where you are today in your own career and life when we come back from a short break. Hi, everyone. It's Celeste, development coordinator at Hope House Colorado. We have an awesome group of 233 champions called our Bedrock Builders who donate monthly gifts and we would love for you to join. [00:37:39] Speaker B: This group is super special to our. [00:37:41] Speaker A: Moms because it provides them stable support. [00:37:43] Speaker B: Through an income stream that they know they can always count on. If you'd like to become a monthly. [00:37:48] Speaker A: Donor, please visit hopehousecolorado.org donate now and make your recurring donation today. [00:37:55] Speaker B: Thank you so much for empowering our teen moms. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to life. Reviewed. I'm just here continuing this amazing conversation with my beautiful friend Tina. And Tina, when we left off, we were chatting a little bit about the friends that you made while you were living here at the house. And I will say, in our residential program, I mean, sometimes the girls get along really well, sometimes they don't get along as well. And we have a lot of, like, house meetings about being good roommates and how do we, how do we treat each other. But sometimes mamas actually form these friendships that have lasted for years. And that is a beautiful thing when you get to see that happen. So tell me a little bit about the girls you lived with then and the ones you still know. [00:38:43] Speaker B: Alrighty. So I live with three other girls, plus my sister. And Danielle was one of the girls, I think she was, she was very close off, actually, when I first moved in. And a lot of it had to do with her already not getting along with my sister. She was like, oh my God, had another sister. And this is literally what she would say to me. And like, I remember her just sitting on the couch and we were just, we were just chatting and then we started to find that we have very similar things that we like or our lives felt very similar. And so we kind of connected, like, hit it off. And she was just so amazing. She was just a good stuff. So good of a sport for Me at that time because, again, like, I didn't go to school. I did all the GD stuff here at Hope House and my sister was going to college and she's, you know, doing her own thing. So I'm just like, it was so good to, like, connect with Danielle and like, kind of get to know her story. And Gracie Ray, which is her daughter, it was just good. Like, we continue keep keeping in touch over the years and like, now she lives in Florida and so, like, I'm just like, so, so kind of bummed that she lives so far, but oh, my God, when I got to see them, I think it was last year or was the year before that. But she's an amazing mom. Her kids are amazing and, like, just so good. I think it's just so, I guess, amazing to me to see where we started and where we are now. [00:40:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my goodness. And one of my favorite stories that I got to tell in my book was I didn't know at the time, but I knew that Danielle was really struggling with. So for our listeners who may not know, Hope House is a faith based organization and we, we want our mamas to bump into Jesus. We don't. We try really hard not to, like, hit anybody over the head with anything. We just want to love our moms the way we believe God loves them. And we want them to see themselves as significant in God's sight, like how God views them as like wholly his and to be treasured and to be valued the way he would treasure and value you. And so for Danielle, that was very foreign and she was very defensive and didn't want to hear about God. And at the time in our residential program, there was a requirement that you either went to church or you, you know, participated in a Bible study with the house. And so she would go to church, but she'd sit with her earbuds in her ear. And I remember her saying one time that she had taken out her earbuds and was just listening to the pastor and was like, like, we'll let you stop and turn that off. [00:41:18] Speaker B: I'm so sorry. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. No worries. I remember she was just, you know, talking about pulling the earbuds out and sitting there and listening to the pastor. And something got her, like something that the pastor said about what it looks like for us to love each other in Christ. And then not long after that was the day that we brought you girls, you and Ann, to the house unexpectedly, because that was not the way the usual process of moving a new mom works. And she never said anything at the time, but later she said, that was the first time I ever saw God's love in action. And it made me think, maybe there's something to it. Maybe there is a real God who really does care. And that just. I look back now and I'm like, remember myself telling Lynn, wait, you can't just bring them home. And. And then, thank goodness I didn't follow through on just being a rule follower because God had a plan in your life, in her life, in our lives, like in building our faith by bringing those volunteers to be volunteer staff just so we could get you in the door. And like, just such an incredible, rich plan that he had. So from that point. So you. You lived in the residential program. We know that you got your GED from that point. Kind of. Where did you go as you grew through Hope House and then moved out and kind of moved on? [00:42:40] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness, that's. I don't even remember. Honestly. This is a bit. Okay, let's see. I went. I actually went on to finish school. I was trying to. It was trying to get my business degree as well, and then trying to, you know, focus on my children and being a full time mom. It wasn't until with my husband and we met a couple of years ago and he, he's just been amazing. He's so good. He helps me with. Okay. And to be fair, so I've never in my entire life left my children with anybody for long periods of time. And, you know, I was gone for a little bit. And he has earned all of my trust and he's just so amazing. And like, my, my life path right now is just trying to build something for my children. And so I'm full time employee still. I am an office manager. But my biggest goal is to continue doing my hobby, which I was telling you, Lisa, that was doing podcast stuff. And so, you know, in order to. I'd like to kind of encourage my children to still follow their dreams and goals. And again, like with Scarlet, just have something to fall back on. [00:44:04] Speaker A: I love that and I love. Tell us about what your podcast was about, because I think that's significant. [00:44:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. So my podcast was kind of how I grew up. It was really hard. I think it was my first episode was a little bit hard to listen to. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:19] Speaker B: Because I talked about, like, how it was growing up Asian American and abuse is really normal in the Asian culture. So, like, if you get hit by your dad, your mom, you know, and in the home culture, specifically this culture, it's okay to have your dad molest you or have your dad to do whatever he wants, because technically, again, men are the one that carries, you know, the legacy, so they get to do whatever they want. So in, you know, our culture that since it's his kid, he gets to do whatever he wants. [00:44:54] Speaker A: I love that you were, like, brave enough to talk about some of the things that are hard about your culture that me as a white middle age woman wouldn't know. Like, I mean, I know some because I got to know you, so I did research and got to learn a little bit about your culture. But really, I wouldn't have known if you weren't brave enough to talk about it and be a part of Hope House in the first place. So I love that part of your heart and mission for your life, as was sharing what it is like to be an Asian American. Not just your. The difficult parts of your past, but also what's it like to be an Asian American, like, just in life. [00:45:36] Speaker B: It's so hard. Yeah, like, I. That's mainly what the podcast is about. And so, yeah, it was hard to talk about because I, I don't like to cry on camera and on my podcast I had to take breaks every time. But yeah, that was really like the main idea of, like, the difference between being raised as a male and my co host was, you know, among American male and I was the Hmong female. And so we would talk about how different it was. Like, he didn't have to do any of the responsibilities, he didn't have to take care of his family, you know, but all that falls on the woman. So whether you're like 13, 14, 16, that's still your responsibility. You're required to take care of your older brother, you're required to take care of your younger brother, you're required to take care of your dad. Like, it's just. That's how it was. [00:46:26] Speaker A: That's how it is. Well, I know you're. You have not been able to do your podcast for a little while because you have had some new, you know, and exciting things that you just talked about happening in your life. You got married a couple of years ago, and I just have to say I have only gotten to meet your husband once. But, but when we went to lunch and you were in that phase of kind of considering, like, what do I do? Like, I think this might be a relationship that I want to be in for the rest of my life, but I'm also like, super nervous about. I mean, you have experienced two really difficult, abusive relationships in your life and you had not had a truly healthy, loving, very connected relationship. And so you were understandably very nervous. But I remember you talking about him and his work ethic and his family ethic and his faith and just thinking, wow, I haven't even met this guy. He actually lived in Florida state. Yeah. And thinking, I don't know, Tina, this sounds good. Like it's, this guy sounds great for you. So you have been married for two years and tell me about this. [00:47:35] Speaker B: It's hard. We, you know, every marriage have, has its ups and down. We actually. So one of my biggest like deal with me and him was if we're going to get married, we have to go to a Christian based couples therapy. [00:47:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:50] Speaker B: And so that's what we did for quite some time. And then we decided that, hey, I think we could do this alone. And you know, with me growing up with a lot of trauma, I still go to therapy and so I'm still working on myself and he's still working him on himself and. [00:48:06] Speaker A: Beautiful. Yeah, that's what we all need. Yeah. [00:48:08] Speaker B: So he's, he's really amazing. He's very understanding. And I think for me it's again, it's so different being in a healthy relationship because he grew up so, so different. Like his, he got to voice his opinions. You know, he, he has very loving parents. His family is really loving. They're very, very accepting. And I didn't grow up with that. Yeah. And so just him, our loving style is so different because I actually learned this from him that I was raised and it was instilled in me that I wasn't allowed to relax, you know, until things were done right. And to me I, that felt more like it's supposed to be a reward. But then I learned from him actually that it's being human. You get to relax just, just being human. Like you're, you don't have to complete everything on your list in order to relax into, in order to take a break. [00:49:07] Speaker A: I knew I love this guy. [00:49:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So, so it was so hard for me to hear that. I'm like, no, that's not, that's not how it is. But so yeah, he's amazing and he's super patient. He loves my kids and he's just been really great. [00:49:20] Speaker A: I cannot tell you how much it blesses my heart to see you where you are today. Like, you are a very professional woman. You've had a number of career jobs in office management and various, a variety of like operations kind of roles. You're very Career minded. You're an incredible mom who always puts your kids first. Like, you're always thinking about your children and what they need and how you can support them and allow them to be their own selves, their true selves. You're a really good friend. Even when you're super busy with four kids, you're still thinking about your. Your friends. And you are an incredible wife. And you've never gotten to be in that position to date, to be just in the last couple of years, an incredible wife. And I love getting to see your confidence and just how you're. You've grown into who God intended you to be. And it's such a privilege to have gotten to be even a little bit of a part of that journey for you. Maybe we could wrap up with just a little bit of what would you say to a new teen mom who is out there somewhere and scared and thinking like, oh, this Hope House thing sounds too good to be true. And I don't trust it. And I don't know if I should call because it's just. Yeah. That we hear all the time that mamas say it just sounds too good to be true. What would you say to that new mama who's hopefully not sleeping in a park but might be in a pretty unsafe situation? [00:50:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for that, Lisa. Oh, my God, that almost made me cry. But I would say, you know, to all the young moms that your story doesn't end here. And I know that things may feel heavy right now, so. But don't give up. You are loved and you know you are worthy of love. And I love that we have Hope House. [00:51:15] Speaker A: Oh, I love that. Well, mamas, if any of you are out there listening, Hope House is a place where you can belong. It's a place where you can be yourself, where you're going to be completely free of judgment, where we're going to invest in you to help you grow into being exactly who God intended you to be. And a place where you're going to find that we just believe so much in you and in the mom that you can be. And that's exactly who Tina's grown to be. And Tina, it has been just a joy and a privilege to be here today with you. And just to get to be with you fills my heart. So thank you. [00:51:52] Speaker B: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. It's been an honor to share my story. [00:51:56] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:52:09] Speaker B: Oh, precious soul. The things I didn't know. The things I didn't know about you. About you.