[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Life Reviewed, a podcast by Hope House Colorado where we invite you into conversation with teenage moms and the people who champion them. These stories of struggle, overcoming and perspective shifts will challenge you to review life as you've known it. One story, one person, one conversation at a time. Oh, I thought I knew the kind of life that I would need.
Welcome back to Life Reviewed. My name is Jenny Macias. I am the director of partnerships at Hope House Colorado. I have actually been at Hope House for twelve years and worked in many various positions at Hope House. Was our director of programs for about ten years and when I started at Hope House twelve years ago, worked in a basement bedroom of our residential house that you learned all about with our last podcast with Lisa Steven talking about and I think that we served maybe 40 teen moms that year that I started and this past year we served 250. So it's been a privilege and honor over the last twelve years to just watch lives of teen moms be transformed and to see just the growth continue to happen within this organization. And I love it. So currently, what my role is as the director of partnerships is I.
I am helping to open Hope House locations in other places. So we actually have a affiliate Hope House location up in northern Colorado, Hope House northern Colorado, and then we have one in Canyon City, Colorado. We have a residential program and we are in the process of opening our first out of state affiliate and we'll have a Hope house in Orange County, California coming soon.
The other piece of my job is to help build partnerships with organizations and businesses in the community that will remove barriers for teen moms to reach self sufficiency. So those are things that we don't already offer in house. So that could be partnerships with like an auto repair shop who might donate some free repairs for our teen mom's cars, or building a partnership with a counseling center where we have therapists that will partner with us to maybe offer some free counseling services for our moms, things like that.
But I am joined today by one of our teen mom alumni and I call teen moms superheroes because they truly are. Being a mom at any age is hard and challenging and like the greatest gift ever. I was not a teen mom, but definitely was terrified when I was pregnant with my first child and was older. And so I just have mad respect for teen moms and just love them and think they're incredible.
Jenny, who is joining me today, is nothing short of that. She is truly superwoman and I'm so glad you're here with me today.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Thank you Jenny.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: So, Jenny, how long ago did you get connected to Hope House?
[00:03:06] Speaker B: So that was in late of 2015.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: 2015. So when you. How did you hear about Hope House?
[00:03:14] Speaker B: So I was going to a private school, very small school, maybe like 50 students or less.
I was. I was sleeping on one of my friend's couch, and it looks like they were about to kick me out. And the math teacher there, Miss Jocelyn, she introduced me to Hope house and told me, like, you need to get in here.
They're gonna save your life.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: What did it feel like when you walked in the first time?
[00:03:42] Speaker B: I was really nervous. I did not know what to expect. And the two people that greeted me was you and Ashley. And you guys were just so excited. Super welcoming.
It's not something that I was used to, so I had my guard up, but you guys walked me through the whole process and talked to my son and interacted with me and really listened to me of the needs that I needed at that point.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: And how old was Axel?
[00:04:18] Speaker B: Like four or five months. He was really tiny.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: He was so tiny. And how old is he now?
[00:04:26] Speaker B: He's gonna be nine in July.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. So we've known each other for nine years?
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Cause I did your orientation nine years ago and got to just welcome you in, and then you did all the things and are now self sufficient.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: And so for those of you listening, our hope house moms get to stay connected to our programs or get served by our programs until they're 25 years old. And so Jenny aged out of our program and is now alumni. And how old are you now?
[00:05:01] Speaker B: I'm 26.
[00:05:02] Speaker A: 26. So you aged out a year ago.
I'm so excited for us to just dive in and get to hear some of your journey and story, which is so impressive. So today, what we're going to talk a little bit about is a training that we do.
All of the staff and volunteers at Hope House receive a training on generational poverty and talking through the differences between poverty and middle class.
Majority of our moms that come to Hope House come from poverty.
Jenny, do you feel like the moms that you were in relationship with at Hope House, like, you guys all had similar stories and were coming from, and a lot of the staff and our volunteers often come from middle class, and it's so helpful to understand the differences and how those two classes view and operate within the world. Right. And so I did this training before I worked at Hope House. Like, I think it's probably 15 years ago I did this training all of this information comes from a book called bridges out of poverty. So if anyone wants to learn more or dive deeper into some of this, because this is just going to be very high level today.
Bridges out of poverty by Ruby Payne is where all of this information comes from, and the research that she's done on these different classes.
But 15 years ago, when I did this training, my mind was just blown, and so many light bulb moments went off, and I just became really passionate about everyone needing to know this information, because I think people from poverty and people from middle class, it's like we speak different languages a little bit, and we need to learn almost how to be bilingual for lack of better terms, or how do we speak each other's languages? Because if we understand each other better, we can serve each other better, right? So. And we want our teen moms to become self sufficient and the systems that our governments and our schools are designed with a very middle class mindset. And so if someone from poverty is wanting to reach self sufficiency, they almost have to learn how to speak those middle class mindset languages, and vice versa for us, right. If I am working with someone that is coming from poverty, I need to learn how to speak their language and understand where they're coming from and navigating the world to earn enough trust to then build that relationship so that we can speak into teaching you how to make it to middle class, if that's what you choose with, obviously, like, one is never better than the other. And by the way, like, poverty occurs in all races and in all countries all over the world. You can't help the family or the situation that you were born into, but you have the power and authority of what you do with your life. And so sometimes it can be a little more challenging to get out of poverty if you don't have the resources available to you in the circles that you have. And so one of the beautiful things about hope House is that we get to come alongside teen moms who come in with their mommy motivation, as Lisa talks about. That's something we a term that we use a lot at Hope house.
They come in with their mommy motivation, and we get to just love on you and provide those resources and support for you guys to be able to do, achieve your dreams and accomplish all the things that you want to. Right?
So what we're going to do next is chat through. If I normally, you guys that are listening, I do this visually. So I usually have, like, a giant dry erase board, and I draw a big circle on it and I write the word poverty over the top of it, and I ask the people that are in the training, so if you're someone that is living in poverty, what are the things that you are stressing about day to day? What are your stressors? Right. And so when Jenny and I were talking about, how do we do this without this visual representation?
We thought we'd talk a lot about it because Jenny's got experience now in both circles, which is very exciting, and stories connected to those. So Jenny, you did this training, by the way, she is now. She's alumni. She's aged out and lives closer to our northern Colorado location and did this training with Hope House, northern Colorado as their volunteer training, and came out of the training was like, oh, my gosh, this is totally. This was my life.
So you were the perfect person to ask to come and do this. So chat with me. Tell me, when you were in poverty, what were the things that were really stressful for you?
[00:09:37] Speaker B: I would say that my primary one was my relationship with my mom.
It was a very toxic one, but I needed. I wanted my mom.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah, it's your family, obviously.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Being pregnant at 17 was really harsh and really hard. I didn't know how to navigate, so that when we would be talking, not talking, her kicking me out, it was really hard for me, and I didn't really understand where her frustration was coming from.
After my dad got deported, I think that was a really life changing moment for all of us. We had to work with each other. My mom didn't get any government assistance because she's not from the United States.
And now that I'm older and I reflect a lot back in my teenage years, it was really hard for her. She had to be a single mom for two girls. She never worked in her life.
And then I just brought another human being to this world. So I think she was really frustrated, and she was like, jenny, how am.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: I supposed to provide for another child?
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Another child? Like, you already see me struggling, right? Like, you know, now that I'm doing better in life, I can see that our lives are a little bit better. Our relationship is distance, but really respectful.
I would say that all the stages that I went through life, there was a purpose to it. I didn't see it in that moment, and I was really frustrated in that moment.
And I would tell God, like, why me? Why did you choose me to go through this path?
But now I look back. Sometimes I laugh, sometimes I cry. Sometimes I'm just like, I wish I would have had a stronger connection with God. And I feel like I didn't really have to go through the things that I went through, but that's just like my life. That's just my book.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: It was a lot of instability, right? Yeah, yeah. Super stressful. Right. So one of the things that you talked about, which is classic stressor with people from poverty, is housing, right?
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: Sometimes my mom was kicking me out. What happened? Like, what? When you would get kicked out, where did you go? What were some of the, like, housing stories that you have around? Just trying to find a place for you in excel.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: So the first time that I lived at the residential program.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: So you applied to live at our residential program here? Yeah.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: So that was in 2016.
I remember that. I had an interview with you guys to see if I would be a good fit to live in the residential program. And that morning, my mom did not want to take me to the interview, so I had to take the bus.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: I remember that, actually. Yeah.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: And you guys were waiting for me. They're like, it's okay. Take your time. Just get here, like, in a whole piece.
And I was so frustrated, and I told myself, like, maybe this is a sign for me not to move in if I'm already having an obstacle course.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: Two weeks prior to me moving to the residential program, my mom kicked me out.
She was really frustrated with money. And every single time that it was, like, financial stuff, it would always be leaned on me. It's because you had a child. You brought another child into this world. Now we're struggling.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Money was always a stressor. It was always a stressor in poverty. Yep.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: I ended up moving with one of my friends in centennial.
Julie was the one who picked me up all the way over there.
And when I moved into the residential program the first time, I only had my backpack and a little tubaware, I would say container.
And I was stressing out because I had these two rooms that were not full with any of our stuff.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: You moved in with next to nothing.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Next to nothing.
So that was really hard. The second time I moved into the.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Residential program, why did you leave the first time?
[00:14:16] Speaker B: It was a relationship between my mom and a relationship with the father of my child. I didn't really know how to prioritize myself. I wanted. I craved a relationship with my mom, a relationship with my child's father, because that's what you see on tv. That's what you see.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Yeah. You want the dream.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:41] Speaker A: The normal family.
[00:14:43] Speaker B: So I was willing to leave my stability, my dreams, for something that wasn't prioritizing myself. I was prioritizing everybody else's needs but mine.
After that, it was a roller coaster. I couldn't really find a place where to stay.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: So again, housing became.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: Housing became an issue.
My mom kicked me out again, and I needed a place to stay.
And I remember going to those car in Serillas, I think those are called meat markets.
And I saw, like, an ad flyer, I guess, paper, and they were saying, hey, we need and live in person. We need someone to cook for us. We need someone to clean for us.
It was a house full of men.
And so you called the dad and.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: Moved into this house full of men.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I didn't have to pay rent. I didn't have to buy any food. I didn't have to pretty much pay for anything to live in there besides my own gas and transportation to my job.
I was scared. I was terrified. I was like, oh, my God, jenny, where did you get yourself into a house full of men?
I remember that I asked them, the only way that I would move in here is if I get the primary bedroom, which had already a bathroom inside there.
And I remember always locking the door. And it was such an awkward stage in my life. And I was really frustrated in myself that I put myself in this situation and my child in this situation, that it was, like, not a safe place. You know, after, especially, like, Friday nights, they would come home really drunk, and I was really terrified. I'm like, what if they come in here? What if they start doing stuff and they threaten me if I'm not willing to do whatever they want with my son? Right.
I only stayed there for a while, and then I met another hope house mom, and she told me, you know what, Jenny? This is not the life. Come.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: This isn't safe.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: This isn't safe. Come live with me.
Which I did. She was living in a low income housing as well, and it was one.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: Of our housing partners.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah. It was really restricted. Only that mom can live in there.
[00:17:21] Speaker A: And she risks secretly sneaking you in and out, right?
[00:17:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
And we depended on each other a lot, as in, like, at that point, we only had one car. So I would start later, or she would start later in work, or she would get off early. I would get off early. We depended on each other because we needed each other a lot.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: So you said you just hit on a few things that they talk a lot about in the Bridgette of poverty book, right?
Oftentimes, people in poverty, you're faced with these rocking, hard place decisions, right?
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: Neither one of them feel good. Right. So for you, you're thinking, okay, I don't want to be on the streets with my baby. I have an opportunity to live somewhere for free if I'm willing to do this kind of cook and clean for all of these men. But I don't feel safe. Right, so you're having to, like, this isn't ideal, but at least it keeps a roof over my head. But safety often is a stressor for people in poverty, too, because of these kinds of situations. And then you're faced with another one, like, okay, so now we've got this hope house mom that you're friends with, who she's also making a calculated risk because she's like, well, this isn't safe for you. And I care about you, and I know what it feels like to be in that situation. I've been there. Come and live with me. I'm gonna risk potentially losing my housing and sneaking you in and out so that you can be safe. But it's putting her in an awkward situation. An awkward situation, too, which is really common with people in poverty, because it's like, we're all just trying to survive.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: Right?
[00:19:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about, like, I know food is also a stressor.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Yeah, talk to me a little bit.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: About, was that a stressor for you?
[00:19:11] Speaker B: It honestly was.
Before I met Hope house, me and my mom were just not seeing eye to eye.
And I remember I hit rock bottom. I was staying at my friend's house, and I didn't have any money. I was in high school.
I didn't have a job. I didn't have a car. So I went to the nearest store that I can find, which was targeted, and I loaded up the car with diapers, with medicine, because he had a little fever going on that day.
Diaper rash, food stuff for myself as well.
And by the time that I got everything that I needed, the cart was full, and I had Axel strapped to me, and I was like, you know what? Whatever happens, happens. I need diapers. I need food.
And I wish I can say that was the only time that I did it, but I did not.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: So you stole everything in the cart? You stole.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: I stole everything in the cart. I walked out. I'm surprised that nothing happened, because it was a full cart of stuff.
It didn't beep.
[00:20:34] Speaker A: No one noticed.
[00:20:35] Speaker B: No one noticed anything.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: It's like you got a little angel. Like, we're just gonna protect you.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: We need all these to survive. I was surprised because after you walk a certain distance from target, the wheels locked. The wheels didn't log that time. Crazy. And I was like, I feel like God was protecting me, and maybe other people would be like, jenny.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Nope. I think.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: But I'm like, little angel.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: God was like, you need this. You need less.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: You're desperate. You have nowhere else, and you're not.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: This person who is this, like, normal thief. It's like I'm literally trying to survive.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: Right?
That was a very dark moment in my life because, like I said, that wasn't my only time. Every single time that I needed something, that's something that I relied on, I never got caught, knock on wood.
But, yeah. The fact that I had to go that low in my life to steal because I needed it, which, again, is.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: Like rock and hard play situation. Right? Like, I will literally do anything to provide for my baby and make sure we have what we need. Right to the point where I'm gonna risk getting arrested or going to jail because we have to survive. Right. Another major rock and hard place kind of situation.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: Another story you talked about, like, transportation is another stressor for people in poverty. Right. And so you talked about you and Vanessa, the teen mom, when you guys were living together. You're sharing this car.
That's a common thing. Like, we're just. Transportation can be such a barrier. Right. Because I. Especially when you have kids. Right.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: I know that you did a lot of bus rides with Axel.
I just can imagine, like, riding long bus rides with a little kid is.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Not the funniest thing.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Probably not the funnest thing. Yeah.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: Yeah. It was really uncomfortable. A lot of people wouldn't stand up or help me as they saw that I was, like, carrying a stroller. A stroller that's, like, almost the same size as me.
Plus, carrying a six month old, that was really hard.
I didn't really have a stable transportation. I didn't have a stable vehicle that was actually mine until I would say, 2018.
[00:22:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's hard because you want to obviously be working. Right. And so if you get a job, what are the other things? As a mom, like, you would need transportation and what else?
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Childcare.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: Childcare. So was childcare a stressor for you?
[00:23:11] Speaker B: It really was.
I did have childcare placed, but in order to hold that place in childcare, especially if you have CCAP, they need to be there full time.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: At that time, I was sharing custody with the father of my child, and when it was his turn, he wouldn't take him. Yep, I remember that.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: And for those of you listening, CCAP is a childcare assistance program. So it's like a human service that we help our moms do so they can afford childcare. And by the way, Colorado is considered a childcare desert. There's almost no spots, even if you can afford a full pay childcare spot, and even less spots that are where they accept CCaP. So it's like a needle in haystack to find that. And they want your kid to be there full time, and. And. And it just is like. And barriers get raised higher and higher. There's just more. And so for you. Yeah, that was a huge stressor back then.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
I ended up losing the daycare spot because he wouldn't take him. So then I'm back to square one.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: And did you have a job?
[00:24:17] Speaker B: I did.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: I had.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: I love that job so much. I had a job that hope house paired me with. It was called enduring resources. It was an oil company.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: And you were doing. You were like an office admin for them, right?
[00:24:31] Speaker B: I was a receptionist. Crystal was the office admin. She took me under her wing because obviously, that was my first professional job that I had.
And she told me, jenny, you have to show up 15 minutes. You can't show up 50 minutes after you start before.
She really helped me set a foundation of what a professional job looks like.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: Which is awesome.
And I remember she was so frustrated when I told her, I don't have childcare. And she's like, you need to figure this out. She's like, you cannot lose your job, because she knew what I was going through.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: Right. She was trying to be empathetic, but also, it's, like, easier said than done, right? Mm hmm, mm hmm.
[00:25:11] Speaker B: And I remember each day, she would, like, check up on me, like, have you found childcare?
Like, what can you do? And I was like, I can't. I don't have any money to pay for childcare.
I need this. I need ccam to do it.
And unfortunately, she had to let me go, and she was really bummed out. And I remember how to bring Axel with me because I didn't have childcare. And she's like, I wish I could help you. She's like, but there's only so much that I can do, right, which is.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: How so many people in poverty feel, right. It almost feels like there's all these things. It's like you're trying to hold your life together. It's like a house of cards. It's so fragile, right?
[00:25:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: And one thing, one of those supports falls apart, and then the whole house of cards falls down. Right?
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:01] Speaker A: Is that how that. I mean, sounds like that's how it felt for you of, like, I have this job and I'm trying to keep it together with transportation and childcare and keep my housing in place. But then because the childcare fell apart, then you lose the job. Right. And now you lost money, and it just becomes this domino effect, and it's.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Hard to get back on your feet after that. I remember applying for different jobs and childcare. It was always a big issue for me because we. Well, me and Axel's dad never saw eye to eye on childcare and how we can help each other out. That was really a struggle.
I felt like after that, I didn't really have a settled job. Maybe after, like, two years.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: Because I had a job for a little bit, and then childcare fell through the cracks. Or the car. I didn't have a car.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: And again, again, dominoes.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Bagged. Square one.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Yep. Trying to rebuild everything.
[00:27:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:01] Speaker A: Yeah. So one last thing that I usually put into the circle when I'm doing this training is entertainment. And they talk about this in the book of, like, entertainment is also becomes a stressor of something that's just, like, so important. Right.
And that looks different in poverty versus middle class.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: Right.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: And so I don't know if you have an example of where you saw that play out in your life when you were in poverty, of how entertainment kind of played a role for you.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
I love watching movies. I am such a sucker for movies. And I remember that I felt like I needed.
Back then we had DVD players, so I felt like each time that I went to Walmart, I'm like, I need a movie to relax, to just take some ease off.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: And I just want to get home.
[00:28:02] Speaker B: When I have an opportunity, I want.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: To check out and not think about my stressful life, just trying to survive.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And the movies back then were like, $5, but for me, $5 was a lot of money. And so people listening could be like.
[00:28:18] Speaker A: Well, why would you already are, like, stealing food and groceries, but then you're buying DVD's? Why would you do that? Right. There can be a major disconnect of people from middle class not being able to understand that. And that's why they talk about this in the training of, like, this is part of me surviving is I need to spend some money on this so that I can check out and not think about my life or doing it with something fun. So, like, something that we see with our moms often is at Hope House. They can come and they're asking us to help maybe pay an excel bill or something like that. And when moms come in, we're asking them, okay, great, let's sit down and do your budget. And there's been times where moms come in and she's always got, like, the $70, like, nail set, right? And I'm like, girl, I can't even afford to do the $70 nail set. Like, and now we're talking gonna about. And it's a joking conversation. But one of the hidden rules of poverty is that money is to be spent. Right. And also, when you're living in this survival mode, you're not good at progress planning or thinking ahead. And if there's something I can just do that's gonna feel good, I'm gonna do that, and I have the money to do it. Right.
We obviously, at Hope House are talking about how do we manage some of that with the budget.
But also the mom that I was doing this with, like, who had the fancy nail set, right? She's like, well, Jenni, I learned in parenting 101 that self care is important and you can't pour from an empty cup.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: And like, woo.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: Touche. Glad you were listening in class. That's right. Absolutely. We want you to do that. Also, how do we build this in the budget? I want you to keep doing this. This is important to you. And so some relationship building comes with that of, like, I hear you. I see that this is important and a need when you are living in this massive stress. Right. Maybe we do the $40 nail set instead of the 70. Right. So you can still be taking care of yourself if that's, like, your one thing.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
All right, so we're going to shift gears a little bit. We're going to take a quick little break. And when we come back from the break, we're going to talk about middle class and some of the stressors that are different there. So once you can kind of get all of those basic needs in place and you're not living in just like, day to day tyranny of the moment is kind of what they say in the book, what does that look like in middle class? Which is very different. We'll talk about that when we come back.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: Hi, everyone. It's Emmy. I'm the development officer here at Hope House. I'm so excited to share that. Our 11th annual Hope House five k and fun run is coming up on Saturday, May 4, at the apex center in Arvada. Make sure you register soon because early bird pricing ends on April 18. All proceeds will go towards empowering teen moms. We have a beautiful paved course along the the Ralston Creek trail. We'll also have a vendor village, live music and fun for the whole family. For more details, check out our events
[email protected]. Dot. We can't wait to see you there.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: All right, we are back. And Jenny, it's so fun to hear some of these stories, and it brings back so many memories with you. And you and I went on a journey. There was a period even where you were, like, not liking me very much because we had to have some hard conversations.
You're like my daughter. I love it.
But I'm so, so, so proud of you because one of the greatest things about being at Hope House for as long as I have been is to have those long relationships with moms and truly see the transformation happen and watch someone like you who, like, came to us in poverty, but just so motivated. Like, I will literally do whatever it takes to provide for my kid. Right. And you did that. And now to see, even though there was, like, ups and downs and it was a journey, you got there. You did it right. You did the work, and, like, so, so, so proud of you. So let's chat a little bit about now in middle class, because now, um, what are the things now, like, after you got, like, you got stable housing, you. All those basic needs are met. Now. What are, what would you say are some of the stressors for middle class?
[00:32:39] Speaker B: I would say, like, upgrading your car or investments that you can do, always trying to make extra easy money to just have there.
Then you start thinking about your retirement, where you want to do, where you want to go. Do you want to stay here? Do you want to have, like, a little cabin?
[00:33:02] Speaker A: There's all these new future thinking opportunities, right?
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: So one of the big things that helped you get to self sufficiency was education.
[00:33:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: So talk to me a little bit about what is the like. I mean, you came to hope House. You finished your. Did you get your GED? Yeah, I got my GED. Okay. And then you went on to further education. Right. Which is so important. Right. And it's challenging. Cause sometimes you're like, I don't really want it. Can I just be done? Do I have to keep doing further education? Right. And so one of the conversations we will have with our moms at Hope House is, do you want a J O B, which stands for just over broke, or do you want a career?
[00:33:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:41] Speaker A: Yeah. What if you have a career type job? What does a career type job. Give you.
[00:33:48] Speaker B: It gives you insurance, it gives you benefits. Paid time off.
[00:33:52] Speaker A: Paid time off. That's always what moms are like, oh, I'm listening. What I'm like, yeah. Have you ever had a job where they're still going to pay you even when you're not there? And moms are like, that's a thing. Yeah. So if you're willing to do a little bit of further education, you get to make more money, and you can have a career job where you get paid vacation time, paid sick days where it allows you to take a vacation because you're still getting paid while you're on the vacation. Right. Whereas if you are working at Walmart or McDonald's. Is that a thing?
[00:34:23] Speaker B: No.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: No. Right. And so, but if you grow up in poverty and you're only surrounded by people that are from poverty, you don't know any different.
[00:34:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:31] Speaker A: And so talk to me about your. What. What'd you do for education to get some further.
[00:34:36] Speaker B: So I study in the field of early childhood education.
That was such an amazing experience.
I felt like I already had a lot of knowledge because of Hope House with their parenting one on one, and mommy and me, we always had resources of how to become a better mom and how to be there for our kiddos.
I did that, and I loved it. I climbed up pretty quickly in early childhood in a daycare, which benefited me because I needed childcare. So it was a win win situation.
[00:35:15] Speaker A: Kill two birds with 1 st. You're gonna provide childcare for my kid and I get to work this career?
[00:35:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: So that was really where it all started.
I didn't really have any paid vacation or sick times, but I didn't really need it at that point because my child was in childhood care.
What really helped me is when I got into comfort dental, into becoming an admin and doing accounts receivables. That's where I found out about insurances, that they provide insurance, this dental vision, because when I was in childcare, I past my limit to get food stamps.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Yeah, you're making just enough.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So that was really not qualifying for Medicaid, for CCap. I was like, that's good, but I.
[00:36:16] Speaker A: Needed the cliff effect.
[00:36:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:36:18] Speaker A: Can we gradually taper off? But that's. That's a whole other, like, we could talk about that for a whole other podcast, the whole cliff effect thing. But, yes, that becomes a major stressor for it does.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: It does. So when I got this job at comfort dental and I got an HSA and I got a retirement plan and all of these benefits, I was like, where have I been living?
How come I'm really finding these things out? Which I think that really helps set a foundation of only wanting to exceed more and not expecting less.
I worked at Conford Dental for many years.
The hours were crucial.
I always worked from seven to seven as an office admin, but I had extra money. You know, I feel like sometimes you have to give in some things that you want in order to succeed a little bit more.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: That was a shift in mindset for you. That's definitely more of a middle class mindset shift. That sounds like you had.
[00:37:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:22] Speaker A: It's like now all of a sudden, I do have more than I'm used to.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:26] Speaker A: How do I manage this?
[00:37:27] Speaker B: Well, how do I manage and stay humble, you know, because I feel like, oh, my God, I have, I don't know, like, 80 extra bucks. Like, I can buy some wingstop. I can buy, like, my lashes and stuff. Like, how do you remain humble and, like, okay, save this for an emergency. Save this for when you have a flat tire or, yep, your baby's sick or something. It was really hard, but.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: But you did it. Like, that is a total shift, right?
[00:37:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:59] Speaker A: You went from spending, I have money and I'm just gonna spend it. The little that I have, I'm spending it right to. And that's like, one of the hidden rules of middle class is, like, money is to be saved. Right. And poverty. Money is to be spent. So you made that transition. That's huge. Right.
And then I think the other transition you made is understanding the importance of education. Right. Education is, like, such a middle class thing of. It's so, so, so important because it's. I mean, I grew up in a very middle class home, and it was very much like, you will do well in school because you are going to college. And that's just what we do. Because then you have to have a career. Right. And then you have a career so that then you can do what at the end of your career?
[00:38:40] Speaker B: Succeed.
[00:38:41] Speaker A: Retire.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: Retire.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: Right. And so one of the things you talked about was, like, I think you mentioned 401K as a benefit. Right?
That's a very middle class thing right? Now. I'm like, you're able to do this future planning thing of, like, this has allowed me this opportunity. And now insurance in middle class, we have insurance for everything.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: Right?
[00:39:02] Speaker A: You have your renters insurance or your homeowners insurance. You have your car insurance. You talked about how you got better insurance when you had more money. We have insurance for everything. Pet insurance. So just in case something happens, I'm covered.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: Right?
[00:39:16] Speaker A: Was that a reality or even something you could even have the luxury of thinking about when you were in poverty?
[00:39:21] Speaker B: No, I didn't even have the money for that.
[00:39:22] Speaker A: Right. Like, and so sometimes I think people and middle class, it can be hard to understand or be in the shoes of someone in public. Like, I don't have the luxury of forward thinking. I'm literally surviving day to day. Yeah. Sometimes it's hour to hour.
[00:39:38] Speaker B: Right?
[00:39:39] Speaker A: I need to eat. How am I gonna eat in the next hour? How am I gonna feed my baby in the next hour? Cause all you moms, I know you. I will go without, but I will make sure my baby gets to eat.
[00:39:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
Another very middle class thing that I know is another opportunity that you got to provide for Axl, is extracurricular activities. Right. So education is so important now. We want to make sure our kids are doing well in school and going to a good school, but we also want them to be well rounded in middle class. Right. And so have you put him into sports and had the opportunity to do that?
[00:40:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
As soon as I got my comfort dental job and I saw, like, my checks, I was like, oh, my God, I can finally do swimming classes. Cause I don't know how to swim.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: So you're like, I couldn't afford swim lessons. My mom couldn't afford swim lessons, right? But my kid's gonna have this.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: So it was more like a survival instinct that I felt like he needed. And then you're like, oh, well, mom, can I play soccer? Mom, can I play this? And I had that extra fun. I'm like, yes, you can do it. We can do it. We can buy you the stuff, and we'll still be okay.
And it was just honestly, like, such a blessing that I was able to experience that with Axel. And sometimes he'll say, like, little things like, oh, mom, remember the first time I played, like, soccer and we had to go to the thrift store to buy shoes and stuff like that? And now he's like, well, mom, now we get to go to, like, chills or we get to go to, like, dick's. He remembers those things. So it's such a. Like, a blessing that he knows that.
[00:41:18] Speaker A: And he has gratitude of, like, wow.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: And grateful for the things because he saw what we had to go through.
[00:41:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm sure he just looks at you and is like, my mom is so amazing. Like, look at what she's doing and growing and accomplishing more. So that she can provide more and is seeing the sacrifice that you make to make sure that he doesn't go without. You can have all those things. Yeah.
So I want to transition to kind of wrap up. Like, one of the things that they talk about in poverty and middle class is each has a primary value, right? So in middle class, the primary value is achievement. Right.
Which you can totally see. I feel like the conversation that we just had around some of these things in middle class is very achievement driven. Right? Like, school education is so important and doing well in school. Like, for me, my parents, one of the hidden rules of middle class around education or around achievement is very much like love is conditional based on your achievement. So my parents loved me just a little bit more when I was getting straight as and I was doing good in my sports. They always loved me no matter what. But it's very achievement driven.
Have you experienced? Do you feel like you see that?
[00:42:37] Speaker B: A little bit.
I feel like now that I'm doing financially better, um, my relationship with my mom is very, very mature, very distant, but really respectful, as in, she doesn't have to worry about me. She doesn't have to be angry towards me because she doesn't have to financially support me anymore.
And also with, like, conversations that I have with my friends is, like, what do you do for work? How many hours do you work? Do you have, like, all achievement driven questions, right.
[00:43:09] Speaker A: Anytime you go to a party with a bunch of people from middle class that you don't know, what are they gonna ask you?
[00:43:15] Speaker B: What do you do for work?
[00:43:15] Speaker A: What do you do? Yeah. It's such an achievement driven question, right?
[00:43:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
On the flip side of that, the primary value for poverty is relationship. Right? And when we were talking through some of those stressors in poverty class and what you experienced, relationship was kind of a theme throughout all of that.
[00:43:38] Speaker B: Right.
[00:43:39] Speaker A: Because that was how you survived. Right. And so they talk about in the book of, like, people are possessions, right? People are possessions, because that's how we're gonna survive. Right. And so you're all pooling resources together so that you can all survive. And sometimes that can be a beautiful thing, right? Sometimes it can be a hurtful thing.
[00:44:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:01] Speaker A: Right. And so for you in your journey, like, one of the things I talk about in the book is sometimes in order to get to middle class, you have to sacrifice some relationships to get there. And I think that you were faced with having to. You always wanted to have this relationship with your mom. And I remember over the years having so many conversations with you and your mom and just being, like, heartbroken for you because you're like, I desire this relationship, but realizing this is not going to serve me, and I can't get achieve my goals or get to where I want to if I keep chasing this relationship. And so you did that. And now it sounds like you have a healthier relationship, but you had to almost push that relationship with your mom aside for a little while.
[00:44:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:52] Speaker A: Which can make it more tumultuous, I want to say. I don't know what the word to use there, but.
And then the other theme I was thinking of is, like, you and Vanessa, the Hope house mom. You guys totally pulled your reason. Like, we're in this together. We're going to risk getting in trouble because we're surviving together, right? And, like, her knowing I've been in your shoes, I've been homeless right now, I will literally do anything to protect you.
What we see sometimes happen at Hope House is some sabotage where this can be a positive thing, where you're in it together and you're helping each other, but then it can also be a hurtful thing where we've seen moms, they're working really, really hard, and then their families start feeling really threatened because Hope House is putting crazy ideas in their head of college and career. And we're like, you can do anything you want because you can totally. You're capable of anything.
But if you lived in a family that was like, nope, this is just as good as it gets for us. Like, we don't go to college. Like, this is, you know, this is where we stay. This is our territory. We don't branch out of this. And then we have moms coming home saying, I'm gonna go to college, and I'm gonna have a career that can start feeling really threatening, like, oh, now you think you're better than us, or you're gonna leave us, right? Because, again, people are possessions. That feels really threatening. And so our moms are often faced with, again, a rock and hard place sometimes decision of, do I chase my dreams and these things that I really want? Which means maybe I have to sacrifice some of these relationships in my life, or do I go back to the relationships? And so what we'll see happen with our moms is this sort of, like, in and out, right? Cause it's your family. At the end of the day, it's like, oh, this is my family. I want this relationship, but I want this, too. And so one of the things that I would always talk to staff and our moms about is to expect that, right? Like, our moms, we may see them really engaged for a while, and then they disappear for a little while because family's starting to feel threatened. And so you've got to go back and try to repair some of these relationships. Maybe you're making some promises of, if you can support me through this, I will help take care of you. Right. And so that can be hard for staff. Cause we pour into you guys so much, and, like, I definitely remember that with you sometimes of, like, Jenny's leaving the house and we've fallen in love with her and Axel, but she wants to go back and try to repair this relationship with her mom and the father of her child. Right. And it's heartbreaking to us.
But whenever you do choose to come back, we just wanna love you and welcome you with open arms. Did it feel those times when you kind of, like, went back to family and then when you decided, okay, I do need to come back to Hope House. Did that feel scary?
[00:47:41] Speaker B: It was really scary because I knew I was gonna be at Hope House.
[00:47:45] Speaker A: Were you worried that Steph was mad at you?
[00:47:49] Speaker B: Yes. Or, like, really frustrated with me.
[00:47:53] Speaker A: And when you did come back, did it feel like people were frustrated with you?
[00:47:57] Speaker B: No.
That's good. They were always really opened with me. They would tell me, okay, you might have to prove to us a little bit harder that we can rebuild our trust with each other, but we still love you. We're still here for you. But this goes both ways.
[00:48:16] Speaker A: That's good. I mean, that is the thing that we tell our staff. Right? Like, we love our moms, like Jesus does.
[00:48:23] Speaker B: Right?
[00:48:24] Speaker A: And so you coming back. If we're like Jenny, like, gosh, we were working on all this stuff, and you were, like, so far ahead, and now it feels like you're coming back and we have to, like, do some rebuilding or whatever. What does that do to our relationship with you? Right? Like, you were already feeling scared to come back in the door, and then if that's how you're greeted when you come back, it's like the walls go up. Right. It's like, instead, if staff can understand and almost anticipate that, it's like we just, girl, I just missed you. I'm so glad you're back. Let's rebuild together.
That establishes such a stronger bond and relationship to know, like, we love you no matter what. Right. And that is what we're all about at Hope House. Like, our whole, we just believe that relationship is the biggest piece of how we do transformation. Right? Like, you can't achieve self sufficiency with our moms without building relationship first. Right. And so do you feel like, in your experience at Hope House, did it feel like staff did a good job of really just hearing you and seeing you first before we're telling you all these things that you have to do?
[00:49:33] Speaker B: Yeah. I felt like, especially the second time that I moved into the residential program, it was a really hard to. Hard conversation with you and Kara. I believe she was.
[00:49:44] Speaker A: Oh, yep. She was the residential program manager back then. Yep.
[00:49:47] Speaker B: And I felt like I can finally, like, have somebody that's gonna be there for me, and, like, I felt like I was already, like, falling down and you guys were there just to, like, catch me. Like, you're fine.
[00:49:59] Speaker A: Yeah, you're here. We love you. We're glad you're back.
[00:50:01] Speaker B: We're gonna, like, uplift you and bring you back up.
[00:50:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And look at you now, girl. You are thriving.
So to close us out, talk to me. Kind of paint a picture of your life now. Like, where are you living? What does your life look like now? Miss Jenny Ortiz?
[00:50:25] Speaker B: So we bought a house last August.
[00:50:29] Speaker A: You're a homeowner. That is a middle class thing, for sure. You are a homeowner.
[00:50:33] Speaker B: Yeah. In a very small town, Johnstown.
And I found another job that I was able to work from home and just have that flexibility with my son. Since that was always a big issue.
I do remote online notary, so that's been a huge game changer. Opened so many doors, met so many people through that.
And I'm just. I think I'm in a life where I can just really enjoy life and be at peace with myself. There's some stuff that I did lose, like that relationship with my mom. But I feel like I am in a happier place. I'm such. In a peaceful place. No drama. No, you're better than me. No, more like, you need to help me out. Like, I helped you out. I don't feel like I owe anyone anything. I feel like I'm in a very peaceful. I can sleep at night at peace. Not feeling.
[00:51:43] Speaker A: You feel like the hard work was worth it?
[00:51:46] Speaker B: Yes. I didn't know when I was gonna get there. I didn't know if it was gonna take more years or not, but I'm glad where I'm at right now.
[00:51:57] Speaker A: So for teen moms listening out there who are not connected to Hope House or are looking for support or help, like, what advice would you give them?
[00:52:11] Speaker B: I would say that as a teenager, you can get to the top from one night to another, it's gonna take some sacrifices and it's gonna take time. But as long as you have a good resource and you're motivated and you're focused, utilize the resources that are available to you.
[00:52:32] Speaker A: Right. If you're in Colorado, there's lots of hope House locations you can go to. But if you're not, like, look for those teen parent resources that are around and utilize those because they can give you knowledge that you might not have to help you get ahead. Right. Yeah. That's good.
So what's your favorite thing about hope house?
We go nine years back. Do you have a favorite memory or something? Just your favorite thing about Hope House.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: When I lived at the resource, I mean, the residential program, I really loved that we had to sit down for dinner.
Yes, it was chaotic.
[00:53:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:10] Speaker B: Kids crying, kids throwing food everywhere. But that shows you what we're trying to build, which is a family, which is to rely on each other, and you take that little piece and bring it into your own home, and you just grow from that.
I love that. And obviously, I get to try different foods that all the moms cooked, even though we weren't really good cookers, but.
[00:53:33] Speaker A: We still learned a lot.
[00:53:35] Speaker B: We learned a lot.
And that was just, like a good experience, honestly.
[00:53:41] Speaker A: Yeah. That's something that moms say a lot. It was like, hope house is my family.
[00:53:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:45] Speaker A: Hope house kind of became my family. And now you have this model of family that you want to provide on your own outside of Hope House now. That's awesome. Well, Jenny, I'm, like, getting emotional talking about this. I am so proud of you.
[00:54:01] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:54:02] Speaker A: Girl. You are amazing. It's been so incredible to watch you grow and watch your journey and truly are superwoman and an incredible mama. And I'm just honored to be one of your friends and to stay in relationship with you. Thanks for doing this with me today.
[00:54:22] Speaker B: I'm honestly so grateful that you guys give me this opportunity and always keeping the door open for me.
[00:54:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:28] Speaker B: Even through everything.
[00:54:30] Speaker A: Yes. And I love, love, love that you're, like, volunteering up at the Hope house in northern Colorado. I think that's so cool.
Thanks for doing that. I love when our moms, like, give back to Hope House later on when you're able to. I think that's so awesome.
Thank you to everyone listening. I hope this was helpful. You got some good information.
Again, if you want to dive deeper to learn more about poverty and middle class and the hidden rules of the classes, read that book bridges out of poverty.
You can go to the aha process.com, I believe, and order books and look for more information there. Or you can order the book on Amazon. Thanks so much, everyone. I know. My joy is oh, my joy is full.
Precious soul, the things I didn't know the things I didn't know about you o precious soul the things I didn't know the things I didn't know about you about you.
