Lisa and Lauren: Columbine Shootings & Forgiveness Ep. 30

[00:00:00] Speaker A: I would ask every year, is this the year I get to go to school, Mom? And finally she says, yeah, I really feel like this is your year. And I heard him scream, they have guns. They have guns. And I was like, what? What is happening? I heard this so clearly three times. I will never leave you, nor forsake you. And then I will never leave you, nor forsake you. I will never leave you, nor forsake you. [00:00:29] Speaker B: Welcome to Life Reviewed, a podcast by Hope House Colorado where we invite you into conversation with teenage moms and the people who champion them. These stories of struggle, overcoming and perspective shifts will challenge you to review life as you've known it. One story, one person, one conversation at a time. [00:00:53] Speaker A: Hello. [00:00:54] Speaker B: Welcome to Life Reviewed with Hope House Colorado. We are so excited for a brand new year at Hope House. We have lots of exciting things coming up in our podcast, a little bit of a change up and new things coming. And today we're going to start out with a really, truly special guest who I'm really excited to get to introduce all of you to. I'm so thankful, Lauren, that you are here with us. [00:01:16] Speaker A: Hi, everybody. It's an honor to be here. Thank you, Lisa. Yes. So I am a Wisconsin born girl, so I'm not a native. I can't claim that and I know those that can are very proud of it very much. But I moved here though when I was in first grade, so I call Colorado home. And I was a homeschooled kid. Okay. So I was homeschooled all the way up to my high school years, which we'll get into in a minute. But yeah, I married my husband in 2002, so we're going on 20. Is that 24? Four years of marriage. [00:01:53] Speaker B: Congrats. [00:01:53] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:01:54] Speaker B: No small accomplishment, no, like actually miracles. [00:01:57] Speaker A: God is so faithful. So faithful. And we have one precious, beautiful, spectacular, amazing child. And her name's Felicity and she will be 21 in a couple weeks. [00:02:08] Speaker B: Soon to be actual adult. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it feels so weird. But she's always my baby. She'll always. [00:02:13] Speaker B: She'll always be your baby. [00:02:14] Speaker A: Always. Forever. My husband and I jumped right into full time ministry when we were first married, so. So we've also done church work, church ministry in different capacities for 24 years. [00:02:25] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:02:26] Speaker A: And I currently am on staff at Red Rocks Church here in Denver. And I've been there almost 10 years. It'll be 10 years this summer. I get to work with our operations teams for our campuses. I got an awesome team of girls, so we call them the Ops girls. [00:02:42] Speaker B: Nice. [00:02:42] Speaker A: So that's really fun. And then I also work real closely with our lead pastors, teaching pastors to help coordinate our weekend experience. So that is what I get to do there. It is a joy to serve such an amazing local church. [00:02:57] Speaker B: And they are an amazing local church. We are incredibly grateful for Red Rocks. It's crazy how the community of people that attend Red Rocks are just so intentional about wanting to be part of the community. Man, we have. We've had our last GED graduation at Red Rocks in our VADA church. And I know, you know, your outreach team is with us fairly frequently, blessing our teen mamas and loving on them and inviting them to conferences that you've held. We've had moms who've gone to a women's conference at Red Rocks and. And decided that was the night that they were going to trust Jesus with their life. And it's just. It's a. A privilege to get to partner with your church. Beautiful place. [00:03:42] Speaker A: Oh, we feel the same. The tour. I got a tour of your whole nonprofit here is amazing. So beautiful, special. You feel the warmth. You feel. So seen all your staff looked me in the eyes, shook my hand, said, hello. I'm like, gosh, if I feel this, those girls must feel that, too. So I love it. Well done. [00:03:59] Speaker B: I love it. Thank you. I will make sure they hear that. We always tell people, if you're. If anybody that gets hired is going to be answering the phone, they have to have a hug you through the phone. [00:04:07] Speaker A: Oh, yes. So good. [00:04:08] Speaker B: You have to, like, actually feel it the minute you. If a mama calls, or even if it's not a mama, just anybody who calls, we want them to. When people come to Hope House and they take a tour and they. They know Jesus, a lot of times they'll say, wow, I feel like you can just feel God's presence here. And then other times, people will be like, wow, it just feels so warm and, like, welcoming here. And it's like, yes, he has a name, but, yes, we just want people to, like, I don't know, to feel that when they come through the door. So I love hearing it. [00:04:34] Speaker A: It was. It was very much felt. Thank you so much. [00:04:36] Speaker B: So. Well, and tell me a little bit about. Well, maybe go back a little bit to. To your story and the morning of April 20, which everybody sort of has a. Well, most of us who've been around for a little bit now have a understanding of what was April 20th and what did that mean for the community of Columbine and for the Whole community of Denver. [00:04:58] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, like I said, I was homeschooled from basically second grade all the way up until my freshman year of high school. And back in the 90s, that was weird. You know, now there's so many awesome online curriculums that you can do. It's not since especially 2020. Yes, it's not out of the ordinary to homeschool your children, but we were kind of that weird. The weird family, weird family on the block. But it's just something that my mom felt very convicted to do. And looking back, I now see why. So my freshman year is coming around, and I would ask every year, is this the year I get to go to school, Mom? And finally she says, yeah, I really feel like this is your year. And that meant going to Columbine High School, which you could actually see from our house. It was just up the street. And I loved it. I thrived. I jumped all in. Oh. I was like, I got a backpack, I got a locker, I got teachers that aren't my mom. This is so fun. I met so many incredible people. I love it. [00:06:05] Speaker B: That having a backpack was like the thing. [00:06:08] Speaker A: It was a thing, you know, to like, actually walk down a really long hallway to get to a new class. And I just. I loved it. It was really special. Everyone welcomed me. [00:06:19] Speaker B: That's awesome. That's awesome. Because you wonder about that, like, coming from homeschooling, am I going to be able to make friends and people are going to think I'm weird? [00:06:25] Speaker A: Like, yeah. I have one super quick story about my first day of school, though I have to share because it's pretty iconic. First day of school. Walking into that cafeteria, which was huge at the. It still is big. It just seems so overwhelming. And it was loud and chaotic. All the things I had my tray of my lunch and a large cup of red. Hi. C. Punch. Yeah, you know, it's coming. I didn't know where to sit, but this girl, Brittany Berry, I love her. She said, hey, you're new. Do you want to sit with us? I would love to. So I followed her to the table, and she says, girls, this is Lauren. It's her first day. She doesn't know anyone. She's going to join us for lunch. I said, thank you so much. And as I'm sitting down, the red Kool Aid juice all over the table splashes. You know, you wear your best outfit for your first day of class. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm the new girl who just spilled red juice all over all These. Anyways, they accepted me back with open arms the next day, so I was fine. [00:07:25] Speaker B: That is so awesome. And might I just say why? Why would you give, like, red dye [00:07:31] Speaker A: Kool Aid with no lid either? Yes, there was no lid. [00:07:33] Speaker B: You're just hyping these kids up. They gotta go to class, setting them up for failure and filling them with, like, sugar. [00:07:39] Speaker A: So much sugar. It was different times, you know, it was pretty feral. But anyways, I did, I loved it. And as the year progressed, we're getting ready to wrap up. You know, it's springtime, it's end of April, we have about a month left of school. And I actually just tried out and made the cheer squad for the next year. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:08:01] Speaker A: And I was really excited about that day because we were supposed to pick up our, we could try on our uniforms and get all that. And so it was a big day for me also. It was a big day because Mr. Mosher, my science teacher at the time, I had a huge science project that was due. And, you know, I, I, I loved the social side of school. Okay. The academic side was a little on the back burner for me. So I thought, okay, I got a plan. I'm going to go into the cafeteria or go into the library. Excuse me. During my lunch hour. And I'm going to finish this science project that's due. Busted out really quick. And the bell rang at 11:15. And I was walking down the hallway headed directly towards the library. To get there, you have to pass the staircase into the cafeteria below. And all of a sudden I got this, like, ravished hunger, okay? And I was like, we had chick fil a at the time in the cafeteria. So that chick fil a sandwich smell is just coming right up, wafting right up the staircase. And I, I don't, I mean, this looking back really is the Lord's saving grace. But I was at the door to the library and was like, I'm so hungry, I gotta go get something to eat. Turned around, went down the staircase into the lower level of the school, sat at the table with the same group of girls that I spilled kool aid all over and ordered my sandwich and sat there with my friends. And the science project was in the backpack on the floor. And okay, we had disposable cameras. I actually have pictures of my life minutes before it would radically change and took a bite, my first bite of my sandwich. And all of a sudden I, I heard someone, I don't know who, but someone, a fellow student, male student, from the opposite end of the cafeteria, from where I was sitting, we had these big, beautiful glass windows that overlook the Rocky Mountains. He was near those windows, and I heard him scream, they have guns. They have guns. And I was like, what? What is happening? And so we, like, crawled on the floor, got underneath the table, and covered our heads, and we were like, is this. Is this is fake? [00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:36] Speaker A: This is not real. Yeah, nothing. This is not real. But to see hundreds of students get on the floor and go underneath their tables, something is wrong. It's really hard to judge time in my mind, but I was only underneath the table for a few minutes. Best guess. And then we heard that again, that frantic scream. Hearing the word guns, and then hearing run, run, run, run, run, run. Hearing it, like, kind of like flow through the whole room. And I was a tiny little thing, and so I could not get out from underneath my table. I remember my hands getting trampled on, getting, like, pushed back down to the graves. It was just chaos, Just a stampede ensued. Finally, though, I got to my feet. I remember looking around the lunchroom and just seeing chairs flying in the air, food everywhere. The floor was a mess and kids scattering like ants. There was no direction, but I turned, and I noticed a lot of them were running back up this staircase to the top level of the school. So I reached underneath the table, grabbed the hand of one of my dear friends, and pulled her out. And we just stood there, hand in hand, staring. And without words. We just knew we needed to move our feet, but it's like we almost couldn't. Just frozen for a moment. [00:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:54] Speaker A: But I saw David Sanders, who was our. Actually, he was my typing teacher. We said the typing classes. He was my typing teacher and a janitor running through the cafeteria. And I just. I knew something really bad was happening, and I didn't know what, but I also knew I needed to move and I couldn't. And it was all of a sudden, like something just jump started inside of my body. And we began to make our way up this staircase to the top level of the school. I got to the top step, and I saw a science teacher open up her door, and she began to scold us, because as students, we were to remain in the lunchroom during lunch hour. We weren't supposed to roam around. And right as she said, what are you kids doing? Screaming, why are you running? What's going on? And right after she said, that is when I heard the first gunfire. And it was a machine gun, so everyone knows what that sounds like. It was really loud, really, really rapid fire. And we Began to just. We didn't know exactly where to go. There was no plan in place. Now there's procedure, there's plan. You've practiced that plan. There was none of that for this type of a situation. An unimaginable situation. And so I didn't know, do we go into a classroom? Do I go into a bathroom? Do I just huddle in a corner, scream, cry, faint, like what? But I looked and I just saw like this. [00:13:28] Speaker B: The. [00:13:28] Speaker A: It's the full length of the school, and there's a door, exit, door at the end of it. And I just felt like that's the direction I needed to go. So, holding on to Naomi's hand, we began running. And I could hear the gunfire echoing throughout the school. Bullets breaking glass ricocheting off of lockers. And it was really disorienting and not knowing where it was coming from. But I just remember feeling very confident we were headed in the right direction. And so as I'm holding onto her hand, God is so good. I was raised in the faith. I was raised a believer. I was raised in church. It does sound kind of stereotypical to say. But my faith wasn't yet my own. In this moment is when my faith, when I realized that Jesus is my Savior. I heard his voice, still small voice, for the very first time in the depths of my soul, in the midst of screaming, running, gunfire. It was almost like my life flashed before my eyes. I saw so many beautiful things. Also, I saw many hopeful things, things that I. It's. This was like. People speak about near death experiences all the time. This is something I never. I haven't, haven't experienced it. But all this flashback moment, but then all these, like, hopeful things in front of me, and it was like the world around me just slowed way down into this slow motion. And I felt in my spirit. I heard this so clearly three times. I will never leave you, nor forsake you. And then I will never leave you, nor forsake you. I will never leave you, nor forsake you. And then it was like back into the moment and then back into this chaos. And I looked over at Naomi and I remember screaming, we're going to make it. We continue to run out of this hallway also knowing if I fall, I'm going to get run over. And we trampled. If she falls, she's going to pull me down. So, like being very intentional, holding really tight, watching my footing felt like we were running forever. Finally pushed open that door, took that first breath of fresh air, and there was already a Police officer outside with his gun drawn. And he said, where are the gunmen coming from? How many, how many weapons are there? And all I could say was, it sounds like they're coming up from the cafeteria. Okay. And he told us to run as fast and as far away as we possibly could, away from the building. And so Columbine had 2,000 people in it at the time. And you just see this, like, dispersed of all these kids. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Massive humanity. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Just running, crossing streets. It was lunchtime, so it had stopped traffic because all these kids are running, of course, out into the road. And there was a park directly across the street called Leawood Park. And I hopped a fence into the park and turned around, looked at my school that I was so excited to be a part of. [00:16:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:36] Speaker A: I had so many love friends inside there. So excited to get my uniform that day and being like, I am actually dreaming. This is not real. I physically pinched myself because I thought, this can't be. This is not real. And I remember pinching myself, trying to, like, wake up. [00:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:55] Speaker A: Still hearing gunfire and hearing screaming from inside and knowing it's not. My friends are being hurt right now. Yeah. [00:17:05] Speaker B: In danger. [00:17:05] Speaker A: And I don't know who they are. Well, neighbors across in that Leawood neighborhood could hear everything. And obviously they began to open up their doors to us to come inside these homes. My friend lived right in that neighborhood. So we went into her house and turned on the TV and it was already on the news. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Wow. [00:17:25] Speaker A: And it said, justin, there's a shooting at Columbine in high school. There wasn't any, like aerial footage yet, but there was a drawn out map and a little star where the school was. And I was like, my world just crumbled. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:42] Speaker A: This is also the age before cell phones. And so how do you get a hold of your family? How do you call your parents? And did you think of them right [00:17:52] Speaker B: away that they might somehow see this on the news? [00:17:55] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. And I knew my mom was home, so my dad, he was on a business trip. And yeah, I had no way of trying to contact them. Mostly because when I tried to call the house, the phone lines were already so jammed. [00:18:12] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sure. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Yes. So busy signals every single time. So my mom was. Well, let me back up. I was in the house at my friends, and we got transported from that house even farther away. [00:18:27] Speaker B: Did the police take in the school? [00:18:29] Speaker A: They were like canvassing the neighborhood, telling us to evacuate. Okay. And then this is where again, why plans are so important. Procedure. So important. I'm so thankful that School systems have them today. He should have told us and should have helped us get to Leawood elementary, which was supposed to be the pickup place, Leeward elementary or the Columbine Library, and. But didn't communicate that. So we went to another friend's house, which was farther away. So my mom, being she was still homeschooling my brother at the time, and she was outside working in the yard and heard the gunfire. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:19:08] Speaker A: Yes. And she's like, that doesn't sound right. So she got in the car and drove up to the school and drove around the student lot where the cafeteria actually is, and. But didn't see anything. The two gunmen were already inside the building and pushed all the students to the other end of the school, hence where I ran out. So she pulled out of that lot and noticed a gathering of kids at the park. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Okay. [00:19:43] Speaker A: And was just screaming my name and couldn't find me. And then I heard there's these pickup locations. Well, I'm not at the pickup location. [00:19:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:56] Speaker A: You know, so it took hours. Hours. And it's Poor Mama Heart. I know. And as mom now, you're like, yeah, I never want. I'm so thankful I've never had that experience with her. So hours and hours later, finally get a hold of my mom. She comes picks me up. So thankful. My dad in Florida, co worker comes into his business meeting and says, dan, I think you need to come out and see what's happening in Littleton. And sees it on this news that took even longer for him to hear that I was okay. But by the grace of God, miraculously, I never saw Eric and Dylan, who were the two gunmen. If I would have turned around, I would have. And I'm so thankful God kept me focused on the end of that hallway. I'm also relieved that the FBI came to our house. They went to every single student and asked them their stories as they're trying to put together this plan. Like, what actually happened that day. And I had to touch a map and touch the table that I sat at, and I said, I was sitting right here. And he said, okay, if you were sitting right there, did you see any of this? And showing me these pictures of, like, a duffel bag, a sports bag that Eric and Dylan made. All these homemade bombs that were planted throughout the whole school was right next to the trash can, right by my table. And they were all set on timers to go off at 11:20. And then Eric and Dylan were going to be outside in that student lot to kill any survivors that made it out of the building. [00:21:47] Speaker B: So it's so unreal to even. [00:21:50] Speaker A: So premeditated. Everything, it was planned. It was. [00:21:54] Speaker B: It's like the word diabolical. Like, really, truly, ably diabolical. [00:21:59] Speaker A: Evil. Pure evil. So the FBI agents, I said, well, why didn't the bombs go off? And they said, well, they're figuring it all out. But what happened was the detonators that they had ordered malfunctioned. So when they clicked down, and the ignition. The ignition detonators malfunctioned. And my mom butts in there so fast, she goes, oh, no, no, no, no. I am a praying mom, and I pray protection over my child every day. That was the spirit of God, that those. There would have been hundreds, hundreds of casualties. The library that I was on my way to finished that project stacks directly on top of the cafeteria. So their plan was for the cafeteria to blow the library come crumbling down on all of us, and that would send a ripple effect of other bombs that they had placed throughout the school. [00:22:59] Speaker B: And. [00:23:00] Speaker A: And then obviously, they were outside gonna hurt any kids that survived. So, [00:23:07] Speaker B: yeah, so they're having you, like, look, and you had. And had you. I'm assuming you did not notice those duffel bags at the time. You were just trying to. [00:23:15] Speaker A: We all threw our bags on the ground. You know how it is. It's mayhem. It's lunchtime. I'm eating my sandwich. We're taking pictures. You were just being kids, which is [00:23:24] Speaker B: helpful to hear in some ways, because you. Part of you just has to ask, like, well, how do you. How did nobody notice that these two kids were wandering around putting bags on the ground? But, yeah, you're right. [00:23:34] Speaker A: I mean, it's not uncommon. [00:23:36] Speaker B: It's not that uncommon. We're carrying big backpacks. [00:23:39] Speaker A: Oh, there's sports players. You got your gear in a bag. Yeah, absolutely. So as the evening unfolded, still so much unknown. Also trying to track down everybody. [00:23:55] Speaker B: Right. So you probably had friends you. [00:23:56] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:23:57] Speaker B: Didn't know where they were or hadn't heard yet. [00:23:59] Speaker A: Hadn't heard from friends that were in there for hours, hours and hours and hours. And so it really wasn't until the next day when we started realizing, hey, we haven't heard from so and so. So and so our local church at the time opened up its doors for gathering place. And myself, I was very involved in our youth group. And so a lot of my friends, we went to the church. And there was one friend in particular that I hadn't heard from, and her name was Rachel Jo Scott, and she was so I was a freshman and she was a junior, so she was. And I had known. I had known Rachel for many, many, many, many years before that. We were really. We were good friends, but she was like a cool older sister friend. You know, she wouldn't like, hang out with me on the weekends, but she'd hang out with me at, like, church events or. And I always got all her hand me down clothes. She was just a really, really special soul. But what I loved about Rachel was she really modeled her faith. Like she was the first girl in youth group. I remember watching, raising her hands in worship and just didn't care what other people thought about her. She was bold in her faith. And I thought, wow, that's really cool. And so my youth pastor's wife came out of the offices, church offices, and I could just see it in her eyes, like she had bad news. And, you know, she hugged me and she said, lauren, I'm so sorry, Rachel, she didn't make it. And I was. I was so sad and I was so angry, so angry. But I didn't. I had such conflicting. I was still so traumatized. I was still trying to just process. So I think I was in a state of shock. Like, this still can't be real. For sure that you have the wrong information, right? For sure. But as time went on and more details came out, finding out that my bold in her faith friend died for her faith in her last moment really ignited a deep passion in my heart for the gospel and for it being so real to me that I would be willing to say yes in a moment like hers. So her family, again, we were all so close. And so when these stories came out, there was a young man named Richard Castoldo that was wounded next to. To Rachel, and he was conscious when he was injured, and he's now paralyzed from the waist down. But he heard this conversation. When the bombs didn't go off in the cafeteria, Eric and Dylan approached the school. And Rachel was eating lunch with him outside. And they knew she was a Christian. They were in a video class that year. And there's actual video footage that I've seen and heard the audio of or the camera in the background is rolling, and Eric and Dylan are saying, we praise the Romans for what they did to Christ on the cross. Wow. Yeah. And they were being so hateful and things I won't repeat to Rachel because of her faith. So they knew. They knew she was a Christian. She just loved him. She just loved him. And as they approached the school, they wounded her in the Leg. And she tried to get away, and they literally held her head up by her hair, put a gun to her temple, and said, rachel, in this moment, do you still believe in God? Yeah. [00:27:40] Speaker B: And she said, yes, she did. [00:27:42] Speaker A: She did. And I know that in that moment, like, she heard, well done. Yeah, she heard, well done, my good and faithful servant. Like, her life really was a testimony, wasn't perfect. She had brokenness like we all do, but her faith and her love and compassion for others was so tangible and real. And so it's been in. So after hearing all of this, there kind of was in the night, late, late 90s, early 2000s, there really was this revival of young faith. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Yes. [00:28:18] Speaker A: Young faith. People who are like, the world is so evil, it is so broken, and the only hope we have is in Jesus. I'm like, I want to be a part of that. So at 15, I had the opportunity to. I wasn't even looking for a church called our local church, because we hosted several of the funerals, including Rachel's. And do you have. They asked, do you have any students in your youth group that would be willing to come speak at what we're calling the Stop the violence rally? And so they said, would you want to do that? Like, I don't know what that is, but I guess. And there it was. There it started. So that was just after it happened, just a few months of 99. And I knew from that moment on, I wanted to do this full time. I wanted to be a part of the good. And I have lived out. I have seen firsthand what Satan intends for evil. God can turn around for good. I have witnessed that. I have lived it. I experienced it at the deepest levels. And so hence why I met my amazing husband, Brent, because of tragedy, because of Columbine. That's another podcast for another day. It's pretty awesome. But my amazing husband Brent and I, we dedicated our lives to the local church. [00:29:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:42] Speaker A: To being a place of hope. [00:29:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:29:46] Speaker A: A safe place for people to come and experience unconditional love, salvation. And that has been the greatest gift since. Since. Since then. Yeah. So it. [00:30:03] Speaker B: I guess in all honesty, it just sort of takes your breath away to hear the story. I mean, our. I remember that day, and anybody who is. Was old enough to, you know, lived, probably even if you lived outside of Colorado, but certainly if you lived in Colorado and you're old enough to have remembered that day, you know, it coming on the news. And I had a freshman in high school at the time, and just thinking, is this a thing? Like, is this, like, do I need to go to the school? Is, you know, interesting. Yeah. Is it happening in other places? It was so foreign, and it's so sadly not foreign anymore. Now that young man has three little girls, and those three little girls have. They know the plan, you know, you know where to go. You know what to do if. And even here at Hope House, we have active shooter trainings, which are, you know, always slightly traumatized to our poor staff, but also. [00:30:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:59] Speaker B: So necessary. [00:31:00] Speaker A: So necessary. [00:31:01] Speaker B: And it's actually super helpful to hear you say, like, you know, everybody was just scattering. They didn't know what to do. And there wasn't like, a process. And as horrible as. As that whole situation was it. There is a modicum of comfort and peace and knowing, like, we do have a plan. We do know where to go if the unthinkable happens. We. We know what the next steps are to keep our teen mom safe. To keep our kids safe. [00:31:28] Speaker A: Yes. [00:31:29] Speaker B: To keep ourselves safe, if possible. And the truth really is that we don't live in a safe world, unfortunately. [00:31:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:38] Speaker B: But we have a safe God. [00:31:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:31:41] Speaker B: And I so, so love your a. Just thank you for telling your story. Yeah. For being courageous enough to. I know you've shared it many times in many ways, but to tell it over and over again is hard. And. [00:31:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right. [00:31:59] Speaker B: You're probably gonna need a nice iced coffee on the wall. [00:32:02] Speaker A: That's great. [00:32:03] Speaker B: Something comforting. Whatever is. [00:32:05] Speaker A: I think. And the tears are like. And. And I would love to talk about this too. Like, I. I cry all these years later because it still makes me sad. [00:32:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:18] Speaker A: Obviously, however, God has redeemed the anger and the bitterness that tried to take over my heart and my life. And there was a moment shortly after. Not. It wasn't even a year after we were watching TV as a family and some violent scene came on the tv. It just triggered me. [00:32:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:45] Speaker A: I know that word. That word really didn't exist all the way back then. Now I understand what that was. It had triggered me. And I remember running upstairs to my bedroom and I. Personality wise, I'm a very even keel, emotionally stable person. But everything that I had pent up and probably didn't really understand how to process came flooding out. I was screaming, raging, throwing things, hitting my pillows, screaming, angry at God. [00:33:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:17] Speaker A: And calling out for Rachel, like, just. It all flooded. I remember my parents. Thank you, God, for my mom and dad, for their love and their deep faith that they showed me in those. Specifically this moment. Because it really was a fork in the moment. Fork in the road moment of my life where I had to make a decision. And I remember my mom coming and wrapping her arms around me because I was wailing and her telling me, her telling me, lauren, you have to forgive Eric and Dylan. [00:33:59] Speaker B: Wow. [00:33:59] Speaker A: Otherwise you are going to remain a victim. Wow. And I, I was justified in my anger. [00:34:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:34:09] Speaker A: My. I had every right to not forgive. And Eric and Dylan took their own lives that day. So there never was going to be a come to jes moment where I could look them in the eyes and tell them what they did to me and demand that they say they're sorry. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:25] Speaker A: That was never going to happen. But I also knew this darkness that I felt inside of me, this weight of it really was an oppressive spirit. Anger, bitterness, fear that as a young girl I was like, I don't want to live the rest of my life with this. [00:34:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:48] Speaker A: And my mom's like, you have to forgive them to be free. And now I really understand. It wasn't about Eric and Dylan. Forgiving them had nothing to do with them. [00:34:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:59] Speaker A: It had everything to do with the Lord, first and foremost showing me how undeserving I am of forgiveness. But then to extend that to someone and release. I felt a physical weight off of me. I remember saying out loud, I forgive you, Eric. I forgive you, Dylan. And I felt like I just. This breath that I could finally breathe [00:35:32] Speaker B: was that in that moment, in that [00:35:34] Speaker A: moment, my mom and my dad were both there. I felt like I could breathe for the first time in a long time. And it's something that I've continued to have to work through in moments. [00:35:46] Speaker B: Sure. [00:35:46] Speaker A: You know, obviously like different things come up or different seasons of life. But as a 15 year old girl in that moment. 16 year old. I was 16 at that time. I. I learned the power of forgiveness. The power that. That unforgiveness kept me in this prison of my own building. When I said I was sorry, it was like the prison gates flung wide open and I was free. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Wow. [00:36:15] Speaker A: I was free. That has really been my life's message, my life's motto. Again, lived that out like, gosh, if Christ can do that on the cross to the Romans. [00:36:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:31] Speaker A: Who were crucifying him. Forgive them, for they know not what they do. Who am I to withhold that? And it's been probably the best way of life to live. I've had to do it over and over and over and over again. And I'm so thankful every time that I'm able to. [00:36:53] Speaker B: I love that so much. And I can't wait for our mamas to hear your story and to hear this part of your story. Because the hard part, of course, is super traumatic and super difficult. [00:37:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:07] Speaker B: But the redemptive part, the beautiful part of being able to forgive the unforgivable. Yeah. Is such a theme for their lives. I mean, so many of them, the vast majority of the moms we work with have, are trying to break the. The chains of generational poverty. And that almost always means having suffered some violence in their homes, having suffered trauma in their homes, a lot of addiction and family members in jail, parents in jail. Just really rough stories. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:40] Speaker B: And so often they're. They have. No, no, they don't have. Beautiful, stable. [00:37:49] Speaker A: Yes. [00:37:49] Speaker B: Wonderful parents like yours to be in the room with them to say, you gotta let go of this. They're very, sadly, oftentimes their parents are the ones causing the trauma and the harm. And so they. And they don't know where to go with that. And that's hopefully what they find when they come to Hope House. Not, you know, the second they walk through the door. Hopefully they feel that welcome and warmth that we were talking about. Of course, it takes building relationship and building time. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:18] Speaker B: With somebody to be able to be in a position to have the conversations about. We almost, on some level, hopefully, prayerfully get to be a little bit in the position of your mom and dad. [00:38:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:30] Speaker B: Once we've built enough relationship with a mama to, to have that moment where you can say, hey, you know that you gotta, you gotta give it up. You gotta let go of it. [00:38:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:38:42] Speaker B: Because it weighs you down. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Yes. [00:38:44] Speaker B: But forgiving is. I mean, it's easy to preach in a sermon. It's very hard to do. [00:38:49] Speaker A: For sure. Absolutely it is. It's not because it goes against our flesh. It goes against, like I said, how we feel so justified and a lot of us have such deep hurts. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Yeah. It, it's not the cool thing to do. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:08] Speaker A: Revenges. [00:39:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:10] Speaker A: Justices. [00:39:11] Speaker B: Well, I'll show you even more so today with. I mean, like you said, we didn't have cell phones back then, and now it's. That's, you know, very sadly, it's pretty easy to get on our cell phones and click away and say a mean comment or I think they call it trolling. [00:39:26] Speaker A: Yeah. You're. You're right. [00:39:27] Speaker B: Stay away from that myself. [00:39:28] Speaker A: But it's true. Yeah. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Too old for this whole thing. But, but it's, it's. We have perpetuated kind of a phone based, fear based, you know, almost anger based way of raising Kids and way of life. And hearing you talk about your journey is such a beautiful example of, like, put your eyes where. Put your eyes on that exit sign at the end of the hallway. [00:39:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:58] Speaker B: And your heart where Jesus is saying to you, I'm never going to leave you and I'm never going to forsake you. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:03] Speaker B: Because there's a different way. There's a different way from. [00:40:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:07] Speaker B: Which is such a. A beautiful example of where we. We hope maybe our podcast might go this year is a little bit deeper into how do we live life differently than how do we review life differently from the way it's being played out now, where we're all on one side or the other side. We're all. We all have a side. And you can almost automatically hate someone on the other side without ever having even known them just because they have a letter next to their name. And people don't even want to tell you what the letter is next to their name because the person across from you might automatically judge or hate you or whatever that might be. So how do we. How do we move beyond that? How do we move to really, truly hearing one another? [00:40:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:00] Speaker B: And learning one another's experiences. Yeah. And just validating who they are. [00:41:06] Speaker A: Sure. Well, testimonies and stories are so powerful. And when Jesus spoke to crowds, he spoke in stories. Right. He spoke in parables. He spoke in a way that people could, like, find themselves in the moment. So for these mothers. Gosh. And if you're hearing this, like, your stories are so precious to God, he agrees with you when you're sad. He celebrates with you in your wins. You are not alone when you call on his name. He says he is as close as the mention of his name. And this is what I experienced when I started traveling and speaking and talking about forgiveness. Not everybody on the Columbine side thought that that was good. I'm sure they, like, you need to keep the anger going. Yeah. Where you need to be angry and keep that wall up. And how could you ever do that thing? And I'm like, I see all sides of it, and I can love you through all sides of it. However, my life right now is full of peace because it's been. The root of that anger has been ripped up. God replaced that with peace and comfort and purpose. Like, I have found purpose. That God can take the ugliest parts of my life, the uglies parts of my story, and he can turn that into something so beautiful for his glory. And so each and every one of us are here for A reason. We're here for a purpose. We're not here to take up space. We're not just floating through life miserable just to the day we say goodbye and get put in the ground. No. God has you here for a purpose. And guess what? The enemy wants to rob you of that purpose. [00:42:53] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:42:54] Speaker A: Rob, kill, steal, and destroy is his mission. And he is after us the moment we take our first breath. [00:43:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:03] Speaker A: And so for a young mom to stand up and say, I am choosing to break this generational cycle. I am choosing. I am. From this moment on, I am going to surrender. And you know what? When we take control of our own lives, we screw it up. [00:43:21] Speaker B: So true. [00:43:22] Speaker A: But when we surrender it to the Lord, he makes it all so beautiful and so great. Not perfect. It's not going to be. We're still on this side of heaven. There's still things that. We're still very broken people. We say at church all the time. We're just a bunch of messed up, broken people in pursuit of a perfect God. [00:43:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:43:40] Speaker A: So my favorite Bible verse is in Romans, chapter five. And it's suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character. And character, hope. And hope does not disappoint. And so these girls have had to persevere. Anyone who may be listening to this, you've had to persevere through some things. But trust the process that that is developing inside of you, a rich and loving character. God is putting something inside of you that he is developing. Like you talk about us being jars of clay. He is molding and shap. He is putting the spirit of God inside of you. Love that perseverance into a character that then that character shows the hope of the world, which is Christ. [00:44:27] Speaker B: So beautiful. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So never give up on that. [00:44:32] Speaker B: And I mean. Well, first of all, I love that verse. And now I'm going to start using that with our mamas. Sure. We have some favorite verses that we use with our moms. Like Jeremiah. [00:44:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:45] Speaker B: 9, 11. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:45] Speaker B: I'm gonna get it wrong. No, no. Anyway, thank you for. Yeah. [00:44:51] Speaker A: I have for you. Yes. [00:44:53] Speaker B: To give you hope in a future. [00:44:54] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:44:55] Speaker B: But also, I guess what I kind of wanted to go back to was you're not only having that root of anger pulled out and like choosing to live a different life came all the way full circle to your own daughter that going to Columbine High School. Like. [00:45:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:13] Speaker B: I mean, that is. [00:45:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:16] Speaker B: Probably slightly unbelievable to some people. [00:45:18] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. [00:45:19] Speaker B: You would, you know, even that you would even be able to walk through the doors of that school, but let alone let the most precious thing in your life walk through the doors or that school. How did that come to be? [00:45:29] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I will say after my. So my freshman year ended, obviously, and my mom's in. Do you. If you want to go back to homeschooling, if you want to change schools, we will support that. And a lot of kids did make those. They needed to make those types of decisions, and I very much respect that. It was not easy to go back, and I decided to stay at Columbine, partially because I wanted to be around people that understood what I'd gone through. Also, I was like, I'm not gonna let those two boys rob me of this experience that I was so looking forward to. I will not. I will not let them rob me at that. I did day one, put that little uniform on. I still have it. I'm obsessed with it. It means a lot to me. And so I went back and graduated in 2002 again, then again, my amazing husband Brent and I, we got married that year. Was married very young, 19. 19 years old. And I always thought, man, I wonder if my kids would ever go here. But I moved. We did ministry in other places and then found ourselves back in Colorado. And when it came time to. I'm like, well, we're here. And I remember struggling a little bit, but then also being like, I'm so proud to be a combine rebel. That's our mascot. She's been a rebel with me since day one. She would travel with me when I would speak, when we would come to Denver and visit when she was little, we'd go to football games, we'd go to basketball games. So I was really proud. I had to put the fear aside. Felicity wanted to go to Columbine like her mom. And I have one story about how that whole thing. So she went there all four years, made lifelong friendships, did all the basketball and lacrosse and the shows, the theater shows. And she was very well rounded, had a great experience. They have the best staff. Shout out, Mr. Christie, you're the most amazing principal. I love you forever. She's getting ready to graduate, and I had to go pay the last of couple fee for her robes or whatever. And I remember going into the office, them handing me her stuff for her cap and gown, and I lost it. I cried. I cried and cried and cried because this is what it was. Felicity's experience at Columbine was redemptive of what I didn't have. [00:48:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:17] Speaker A: She could walk through those halls and not have the memories that I Had. So I had this moment. I walked through, and it wasn't the last time, but it felt like the last time. I felt like I was saying goodbye to Columbine all over again, but also kind of like closing that chapter of raising her. We got her through school. We did the thing, and we only have one child, so it's always the first and the last of everything. And I went to her classroom. I'd never done this ever, but I was so emotional. And I went to the classroom where she was at, and I was like. And I just needed to hold her. I just need to hold her. So we stood in the English hallway, and I cried. She cried. I was like, I'm so proud of you, you know? And I was like, I'm also proud of myself. Like, we did that. We did that together with. With the Lord's help, with family and friends, and. Yeah, it was very redemptive. [00:49:14] Speaker B: That's so full circle and beautiful. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:16] Speaker B: Thank you for sharing that. [00:49:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:17] Speaker B: That's. Someday I hope I get to meet Felicity. [00:49:20] Speaker A: Oh, she's so great. She's so. [00:49:21] Speaker B: She must be a little spitfire. [00:49:25] Speaker A: Yeah, she's amazing. [00:49:27] Speaker B: Seems like mom might have a little sass, so maybe she has some, too. [00:49:30] Speaker A: She's a beautiful mix of Brent and I. She's got us both in her, which is really great. [00:49:35] Speaker B: I love that so much. Thanks. Well, I just want to tell you, you have inspired me. I'm sure you hear that a lot when you tell your story, but you've inspired me. You've touched my heart. [00:49:49] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:49:50] Speaker B: I can't wait for our mamas to hear some of the. Especially the parts about forgiveness and redemption and full circle. And there's always a plan. There's always. God always wants to bring good out of situations that we feel like might be for evil. And, yeah, for so many of our mamas, they feel like if there is a God, he probably either hates me or he's mad at me, because otherwise, why would my life look like this? So to come to that point where it can be. That's not it. There's something beautiful that is coming out of that. Why my life looks like this is going to grow and. And become something totally different and something beautiful for your child. And that's exactly what you've shared. You've shared how something could have been so dark and destructive and what Satan meant for evil could have gone on. [00:50:43] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. [00:50:44] Speaker B: In your life, for the rest of your life. Yeah. And making that choice in that moment to allow God to say, no, I'm gonna make it something different. If you let me. Yeah. And it is. We do have to make the decision to hand it to him. Like, if you let me, I will do something glorious with us. So thank you for being here to share the gloriousness of what he has done in your life, in your marriage, in your parenting, and certainly in your ministry, which reaches far beyond an amazing church, Red Rocks. But also, every time you go out and you share this horrible, ugly, but also beautiful, glorious story, thank you for doing it with us today. You. [00:51:26] Speaker A: Thank you, Lisa. It's a pleasure. Precious soul? [00:51:33] Speaker B: The things I didn't know? [00:51:35] Speaker A: The things I didn't know? About you? Oh, precious soul? The things I didn't know? The things I didn't know about you? About you? You.